Posted On: Saturday - May 23rd 2020 8:09PM MST
In Topics: Music
Got more immigration stupidity coming. It's been a while. Also, the Kung Flu will motivate a few posts next week, I'm sure. Then there's back-burner posts that need to come forward.
For tonight though, it's time for some good music.
As Peak Stupidity mentioned 3 years ago, the only time we've featured Atlanta band Collective Soul before, the time of their best music - mid-1990s - was after the time I made any effort to know new musicians names, who played what instrument, and what the song names and even album names were! I just know I had 3 CDs from this band that were all filled with a great sound.
That other post featured Collective Soul's song December, which, in keeping to my policy of not knowing much about the band, I knew as Baby, just spit me out. This one is called Smashing Young Man, and it's from the band's 2nd album which was self-titled.
Interestingly, wiki says that the lyrics were written "as an insult to Smashing Pumpkins lead singer, Billy Corgan, who accused Collective Soul of plagiarizing music.[citation needed]". Yeah, citation indeed. Who knows if someone is making this stuff up. Since I don't know, I'll side with Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins, as I like their music even more.
Collective Soul:
Ed Roland – lead vocals, guitars, producer
Ross Childress – lead guitar, background vocals
Dean Roland – rhythm guitar
Will Turpin – bass, background vocals
Shane Evans – drums
Comments:
Moderator
Monday - May 25th 2020 2:49PM MST
PS: Well, that "Drown" song is not one I was familiar with by the Pumpkins. I only know the albums "Adore" with that great 1st song "To Sheila" and "Mellon Collie...", plus the single "1979". Oh, man, I wish I'd gone to see this band. Back when they were big, I thought "ahha, some new-fangled alternative crap", as I recall. Because it was around the same era, I somehow thought they were another grunge band out of Seattle, because I hadn't heard much from them, I guess. Stupid, stupid, stupid!
Anyway, I just listened to "Drown". I agree with you because I think the chord progression is NOT EXACTLY the same. "Shine" seems to have one note that is different (better, maybe just because I've heard it a lot and never heard this. The rhythm and sound of these chords are very much the same. It's like saying, "hey, this guy used the same amps, reverb setting, etc. as Jimmy Hendrix and therefore this little part sounds exactly the same, so it's stolen". Can you copyright all that stuff? I doubt it.
It is a close call, though. Then you brought up the timeline, which is another story. On a (much) smaller scale, it's like when I mentioned a number of times that this extreme surface contagion of the Kung Flu was no longer talked about, right before Steve Sailer wrote a post about that. I've had Ann Coulter come out with something that I was gonna write about some time. I really really doubt she reads Peak Stupidity, and things come independently, in writing words more easily than in music, I guess. Who can prove when he really got the idea?
Yeah, they are both good bands that demonstrate that music didn't totally suck in the 1990s. The Cranberries rocked pretty good too.
Anyway, I just listened to "Drown". I agree with you because I think the chord progression is NOT EXACTLY the same. "Shine" seems to have one note that is different (better, maybe just because I've heard it a lot and never heard this. The rhythm and sound of these chords are very much the same. It's like saying, "hey, this guy used the same amps, reverb setting, etc. as Jimmy Hendrix and therefore this little part sounds exactly the same, so it's stolen". Can you copyright all that stuff? I doubt it.
It is a close call, though. Then you brought up the timeline, which is another story. On a (much) smaller scale, it's like when I mentioned a number of times that this extreme surface contagion of the Kung Flu was no longer talked about, right before Steve Sailer wrote a post about that. I've had Ann Coulter come out with something that I was gonna write about some time. I really really doubt she reads Peak Stupidity, and things come independently, in writing words more easily than in music, I guess. Who can prove when he really got the idea?
Yeah, they are both good bands that demonstrate that music didn't totally suck in the 1990s. The Cranberries rocked pretty good too.
Moderator
Monday - May 25th 2020 2:33PM MST
PS: Hello Adam. Before I write you about the important matter of Smashing Pumpkins vs. Collective Soul, let me ask you if you've read the article by a guy named Steven Penfield on unz. This guy is on there only every coupla months, with a long article.
The guy has written about environmental matters, but on one regarding universities and the student loan bubble, we got into a big discussion that turned into an argument. Really, I started off pretty pleasant, but the guy is very touchy. Since he's writing stuff that beats out all the anti-everything-American by a majority of the writers, I read his latest on sound money and commented a couple of times.
I would like to know what you think, but unfortunately I'd like to have seen you have explain what you could to the guy before the thread got as long as it already has. I know that you understand more than this Penfield. Still, it's mostly along the lines of what I think about money. Gold is mentioned a lot!
Here, have fun!:
https://www.unz.com/article/financial-follies/
The guy has written about environmental matters, but on one regarding universities and the student loan bubble, we got into a big discussion that turned into an argument. Really, I started off pretty pleasant, but the guy is very touchy. Since he's writing stuff that beats out all the anti-everything-American by a majority of the writers, I read his latest on sound money and commented a couple of times.
I would like to know what you think, but unfortunately I'd like to have seen you have explain what you could to the guy before the thread got as long as it already has. I know that you understand more than this Penfield. Still, it's mostly along the lines of what I think about money. Gold is mentioned a lot!
Here, have fun!:
https://www.unz.com/article/financial-follies/
Adam Smith
Monday - May 25th 2020 2:12PM MST
PS:Good day to you kind Moderator...
I agree with you about Collective Soul's sound. Their first self titled album, Collective Soul, (The Blue Album) is pretty good as a whole. It has more than a few good songs.
I had no idea that "Smashing Young Man" was written as part of the band's feud with Billy Corgan. Evidently Billy thinks that "Shine" is a ripoff of his song "Drown".
Here is the best citation I could find (in just a few minutes) to support this idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikCmsszCY1A
Here's Drown for comparison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66Ki1iMMjY
Seems to me that this would be one of those examples about how you cannot copyright a chord progression. Plenty of songs have similar sounding chord progressions.
Smashing Pumpkin's first album was released in 1991.
Ed Roland says he wrote "Shine" in 1989.
Somehow "shine", off their first album (Hints Allegations and Things Left Unsaid), is probably my favorite Collective Soul song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m0bI82Rz_k
I also agree with you about Smashing Pumpkins...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KE9lvU810
I too prefer their music.
However, I'm not convinced that "Shine" is a ripoff of "Drown".
Have a nice evening Mr. Moderator.
I agree with you about Collective Soul's sound. Their first self titled album, Collective Soul, (The Blue Album) is pretty good as a whole. It has more than a few good songs.
I had no idea that "Smashing Young Man" was written as part of the band's feud with Billy Corgan. Evidently Billy thinks that "Shine" is a ripoff of his song "Drown".
Here is the best citation I could find (in just a few minutes) to support this idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikCmsszCY1A
Here's Drown for comparison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66Ki1iMMjY
Seems to me that this would be one of those examples about how you cannot copyright a chord progression. Plenty of songs have similar sounding chord progressions.
Smashing Pumpkin's first album was released in 1991.
Ed Roland says he wrote "Shine" in 1989.
Somehow "shine", off their first album (Hints Allegations and Things Left Unsaid), is probably my favorite Collective Soul song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m0bI82Rz_k
I also agree with you about Smashing Pumpkins...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KE9lvU810
I too prefer their music.
However, I'm not convinced that "Shine" is a ripoff of "Drown".
Have a nice evening Mr. Moderator.
Moderator
Sunday - May 24th 2020 8:25PM MST
PS: I had not known this ZZ Top song before, Dtbb.
Dtbb
Sunday - May 24th 2020 2:32PM MST
PS:Something happened today that brought to my mind this song as I was able to use it in conversation. Fun stuff.
https://youtu.be/AtuQnqhFeXY
https://youtu.be/AtuQnqhFeXY
What I meant to write in this post itself is that whatever "Smashing Young Man" was about doesn't really mean a hill of beans to me. It's got a good melody and great sound. The lyrics can say "Fuck Peak Stupidity" for all I know, but good or bad lyrics don't make or break the song. REM is a good example - I mostly have no idea what Michael Stipe was on about.