Nord Stream Climate Calamity™ Conclusion

Posted On: Saturday - October 1st 2022 6:28PM MST
In Topics: 
  The Russians  Global Climate Stupidity  Science  World Political Stupidity

(Hey, even more alliteration. I like it!)

Our post yesterday on this matter was fun for me, but it didn't have much of a conclusion. Let me just make it clear here.

I can't see how the ruptures of these pipelines was anything but sabotage* by anti-Russian/anti-German elements with the US at least KNOWING about it beforehand. However, the world politics and the technical aspects are not Peak Stupidity's forte.

Yesterday's post was written to show numbers that demonstrate the stupidity of those who would like to make this pipeline rupture deal into an environmental story. That is something I've already seen from the usual suspects in the Lyin' Press. The calculations were very simple, meaning, of course, they don't include real world processes of heat transfer and atmospheric science that would change them somewhat. However, that wasn't the goal. The chemistry and heat capacity stuff is simple. It won't change my point any if the someone would come up with values double or half.

The gist of it:

1) The full amount of methane from the pipeline, were it all to got to that Greenhouse Gas hot-spot in the sky, would amount 0.00005, or 0.005%, of the amount of methane already in the atmosphere.

2) Were one to burn this methane, he'd get 2 3/4 the volume of it (number of molecules** - talking ideal gases here) in Carbon Dioxide and 1 1/8 the volume of it in Water. So ... maybe not... as it if matters - see (1).

3) Were one to burn it all, the energy produced, if somehow spread out evenly, would raise the temperature of the atmosphere by 0.01F, albeit temporarily, as there's that energy balance thing.

All the environmental worries are dust in the wind. That said, it doesn't mean the country or Deep State responsible for this isn't still hypocritical about it.

OK, that's the blog-week. Next week, we'll get that full Giorgia Meloni speech up and discuss her many ideas, Feminist, Socialist, and Nationalist. The inflation and prepping post will appear, I hope, and immigration stupidity will surely rear its ugly head. Maybe more music is in order. Thanks for the comments, and thanks to more of you for reading!

* Sam J, I did read the Lawdog post speculating the cause may have been poor maintenance of the lines, but I'm not convinced. He sounds like he knows his stuff though.

** Which, I'm pretty sure, is what matters for Greenhouse Effect theory.

Adam Smith
Wednesday - October 5th 2022 10:51AM MST
PS: Thanks for the Monkey Werx link, Mr. Alarmist. ☮
Wednesday - October 5th 2022 8:03AM MST
PS: "How do you remove the water in a pipe like this, rather than a compressor tank (as we all here might have at home)?"

The only process I'm familiar with was developed for steam engines, but it should work for any water/gas mixture. You take the hot compressor output, and cool it enough for the water to condense out as a mist. Then you spin the gas/mist combination by sending it through spiral baffles, and centrifugal force sends the water to the outside of the pipe. The water is drawn off through something much like the drain plug in a garage compressed air tank, and the gas is de-spun through another set of spiral baffles, this one of opposite handedness. This might not be the process used today; I heard about it a long time ago and don't work in that area now.
The detonation/deflagration could be important because the sound of a detonation has a characteristic "crack" to it as opposed to the "boom" of a deflagration or a tank rupture. I'd think that a hydrophone would also hear something similar.
As you say, it's been an interesting speculation, but that's really all it is. Nothing conclusive either way. To me, the important thing is that the US crwowded Russia with hostile intent, and the resulting conflict has now invalidated US promises (a) no more mechanized warfare in Europe and (b) no more mass poverty in Europe. I'd imagine that this invalidation upsets Europeans.
The Alarmist
Tuesday - October 4th 2022 7:21AM MST

Try this hypothesis on for kicks ...
Sam J.
Tuesday - October 4th 2022 6:25AM MST

I’m hardly a pipeline specialist but looking wikipedia which as bad as it is, is usually not so bad for technical stuff. It says,

"Once formed, hydrates can block pipeline and processing equipment. They are generally then removed by reducing the pressure, heating them, or dissolving them by chemical means (methanol is commonly used). Care must be taken to ensure that the removal of the hydrates is carefully controlled, because of the potential for the hydrate to undergo a phase transition from the solid hydrate to release water and gaseous methane at a high rate when the pressure is reduced. The rapid release of methane gas in a closed system can result in a rapid increase in pressure."

What he says sounds plausible. Also, I think VERY significant is the long time delay between blast. He points this out and I think he’s right. Of course could be long time delay fuses but if you want to blow something up and you don't care that it’s, known, the long delay makes not so much sense. If someone did blow it up, I would think a good look would tell if that was so.

So let's say this stuff sits for a long time in the pipe making it more likely for hydrates to form. I would think it's easier to make crystals if things are sitting still. Then the Russians start trying push gas through, pressure builds, maybe the pipe splits in one place. Well immediately then the lower pressure in the water causes a huge release of the hydrates. Hence the "explosion".

Above anonymous said,"...One might argue that the phase transition from gas to clathrate would ahve lowered gas pressure in the pipeline, but that lower pipeline gas pressure would have been noted, and any competent pipeline operator would know that gradually lowering pressure would imply that clathrates were forming on a massive scale...."

That pipeline has a LOT of gas in it. I would think a great deal could form and not be noticed over that whole pipeline. I also not think Germans are miraculous savants. They screw up too, and if the amount was not stupendous, how would they ever see it? How would they know?

In fact we will probably never know. The Russians if they screwed up will never admit it. If I was running the US instead of the maniacs that are, and I didn't do it, I would get some video so we could blame it on the Russians. And even then, Lawdog could be a spook feeding us nonsense to try and deflect.

It’s all so tiresome.

One of the main reasons I mentioned it is the press seems to be herding us towards the idea the US did it. This in turn aligns perfectly with the US vs Russia/China tensions ratcheting ever higher, which is exactly what they, whoever they is, have been trying to do for years now. Makes me suspicious. I suspect if Hillary had won we would already be in WWIII her rhetoric was so brutal and she is so ruthless. I could see her firing nukes, burying herself in the Denver airport and forgetting the rest of us.

And to muddy the waters even deeper I’ve heard people say the most likely were the Ukrainian Nazis as they are nuts and hate, hate, hate Russia. It would be technically possible for them to do this with diving bells or helium gas I think. Though I’m not sure. I would think anything needed would fit in a medium size sailboat.

The only thing I'm sure of is a good deal of the people running western governments are psychopaths. I don't have any doubt about that.
Tuesday - October 4th 2022 2:16AM MST
PS: Honestly, I didn't want to click on the NY Times, Adam, but thanks for the basic info. Based on the gas that was stored in the lines, one could get an idea of how big the ruptures were.

Anonymous, in that last reply, of course I was addressing you, not commenter M in the 3 points. Regarding these 3 now:

1) Yes, that's what Lawdog meant, and I wouldn't think any definition of explosion says it must include combustion. As for the blast itself, I don' know much about that business.

2-3) It was implied that the water got in when the compressors were running (not proper operation, I suppose). How do you remove the water in a pipe like this, rather than a compressor tank (as we all here might have at home)? It's different if the gas is flowing. Possibly it could be removed from the gas after the exit (the specs specify the maximum water content).

Then, these guys that seemed to know about the field of gas pipelines talked about Methane Hydrates, not just regular ice. Again, I know nothing about this, but you sound like you do. That'd be a neat trick too, burning ice!

3) Is it the case that the Germans had no way to do anything about it? Maybe the Russians wouldn't allow German engineers/technicians to check things out at the front end. (Possibly due to bad relations that did not have to be the case.)

I think the discussion on Lawdog's blog has petered out.

Thanks for the interesting comment.
Monday - October 3rd 2022 5:38PM MST
1) In popular speech, an "explosion" could indeed mean the rupturing of a high pressure vessel or pipeline. I can't see the rupture of a pipeline as generatign the same signal as the detonation of 500 ky (1,100 pounds mass) of tri-nitro-toluene (TNT).
2) OK, humidity in extracted methane could have been preserved through compression, then precipitated out as the compressed gas cooled to near freezing temperatures. A similar process is responsible for the drain in the airr tank of even garage level air compressors. The tank has to be drained to prevent corrosion.
The strange thing here is that the compressor has been off for several months. Where did the water needed to extensively block the pipeline come from? Also, one can remove the water through de-watering devices; essentially, one cools the hot air, lets water condense, and then removes it.
3) The question is not whether the Germans had liability for the pipeline failure, it is how they could have neglected the possibility of what is presumably a well established failure mechanism. Germany has lost enough money to arguably bankrupt Germany; didn't anybody watch what the Russians were doing?
(Incidentally, a "clathrate" is essentially ice with methane molecules trapped in the crystal structure of the ice; the methane does not chemically interactt with the ice, it is simply trapped within. Enough is tratpped that I've seen pictures of grad students burning ice that was a clathrate.
Also, I talked of "sub-sonic" detonation -- that's an oxymoron. A flame front propagating at below the speed of sound is a "deflagration". TNT produces a supersonic reaction front, "detonation", which is much more "brisiant", effective at shattering concrete and steel.
Adam Smith
Monday - October 3rd 2022 2:42PM MST
PS: News from a few hours ago...

The Nord Stream pipelines have stopped leaking, the Danish Energy Agency says...

Monday - October 3rd 2022 12:23PM MST
PS: Meant to write also that I'll go to Adam Smith's helpfully translated link, since it's said to be amusing.

M, see Anonymous' comment, but I've also written about 10 comments on Mr. Lawdog's site. To me, the coincidence factor with multiple ruptures happening at different locations (just not very likely - 17 hours off over months/years of existence. rules out poor pipeline maintenance as the cause right away.

However, we got into a few semi-technical details too, and the part I don't get is some slug of broken off methane hydrate hauling ass down the pipe and then somehow rupturing it - there are NO elbows and that kind of thing, so I'm still not sure how Lawdog sees this as a possible part of it.

I did read all the comments there too.

On, your 3 points, M, to give Lawdog his due here:

1) Mr. Lawdog had to tell a number of commenters that, no, he doesn't mean a combustion explosion (necessarily) but a large blast nonetheless from high pressure blowing out and ripping up the pipe from a rupture. I don't know the definition of "explosiong". I think one could call that - say an exploding air tank hit by a bullet an explosion.

2) He was discussing water that could have gotten into the line from the compressor - back in St. Petersburg.

3) There was some comments on this about the German's not having the responsibility for this. Maybe also, it's hard to do very much from the back end.

It's a good thread - nobody has been uncivil ... so far...
Monday - October 3rd 2022 12:13PM MST
PS: Alarmist, these Climate Alarmists don't want to hear about practicalities like "good for the plants" (obviously), and how the cows help the environment. I'm not sure there are too many environmentalists left who actually think it all through and really care about what's good for the Earth - the forests, the grassland, the air, all that ...

The big mouths want control of energy and production, and their dupe followers don't understand what water, carbon dioxide, and methane even are, much less the energy balance.
Monday - October 3rd 2022 11:32AM MST
PS: LawDog's account sounds fairly good. Three weak points:
1) Methane itself is a stable compound. A methane / oxygen mixture will explode (classic fuel-air explosion, subsonic detonation velocity) but methane by itself will not. So whence the 500-700 kg TNT equivalent explosions?
2) The methane clathrate failure mechanism as LawDog describes it is plausible, given water. Remember that the gas inside the gas line was at more than 220 times atmospheric pressure (220 Bar) , more than sea water pressure (at 100 meters, ~10 Bar) than so pipeline leaks would have leaked methane into the water, rather than water into the methane. The clathrates would have formed in the Baltic, not in the pipeline.
One might argue that the phase transition from gas to clathrate would ahve lowered gas pressure in the pipeline, but that lower pipeline gas pressure would have been noted, and any competent pipeline operator would know that gradually lowering pressure would imply that clathrates were forming on a massive scale.
3) If the methane clathrate failure mechanism is as well known as LawDog implies, then why didn't the German end of the pipeline insist on a standard corrective maintenance program? Russian ineptitude does not explain German ineptitude, and the failure mechanism would have been well known to both.

Final comment: If the argument is that both Germans and Russians were criminally negligent, or that the associated government management team was incompetent enough to ignore (or fire) their technical maintenance team, then we might all as just as well go home and forget about it because technical civilization is over. Similar things have happened before. Remember Bhopal, India? (
Monday - October 3rd 2022 6:51AM MST
Sabotage? Why not lack of maintenance plus stupidity (the universal solvent)?

Adam Smith
Sunday - October 2nd 2022 9:11AM MST
PS: Good afternoon, Mr. Alarmist,

Vegans are bad for the environment!
Thanks for the interesting article...

Happy Sunday!

The Alarmist
Sunday - October 2nd 2022 8:05AM MST

Sorry, forgot the link:
The Alarmist
Sunday - October 2nd 2022 8:04AM MST

CO2 in the lower atmosphere is plant food. Any carbon consuming carbon infestants who worry about CO2 released in the atmosphere are probably the type who wear masks religiously, and suffer no doubt from self-induced, mind-numbing hypercapnia.

Food for thought:

There’s methane, and then there’s methane ....

“Wir brauchen mehr Menschen, die Rindfleisch essen"

(We need more people who eat beef)

money quote:

“Rinder spielen eine ungeheuer wichtige Rolle für Biodiversität und für Kohlenstoff-Einbindung. 30 Millionen Jahre lang haben sie durch ihren Verbiss im Grünland die heimischen Pflanzen immer wieder angeregt, neue Wurzeln auszutreiben, während die alten den Kohlenstoff im Boden angereichert haben. Deshalb hat Grünland einen 1,2 bis 5 Mal höheren Kohlenstoffgehalt als ein durchschnittlicher Acker.”

The gist of which is, cattle play a tremendously important role in biodiversity and carbon sequestration. For 30 million years, by biting in grassland, they have repeatedly stimulated native plants to sprout new roots, while the old ones have enriched the carbon in the soil. Therefore, grassland has a carbon content 1.2 to 5 times higher than an average field.

Bottom line: Vegetarians are bad for Mother Gaia.

WHAT SAY YOU? : (PLEASE NOTE: You must type capital PS as the 1st TWO characters in your comment body - for spam avoidance - or the comment will be lost!)