Posted On: Thursday - August 24th 2023 9:42AM MST
In Topics: China
Street scene, of which I have many. Note that not all China is prosperous gleaming cities.
This post was the first actual one of these "dispatches", and there'll be lots more. What I already mentioned was that these reports are from personal observations in China, but I'm not writing from there. I'll add here that I was primarily in 2 locations in China. One was a "village"* of now near 1 million people somewhere in the middle of the Middle Kingdom and the other was the capital of the whole place, Peking**. I'd never done the touring thing, but we spent a few days there for that. (There didn't seem to be an easy way out of joining the tours under the guides with the pennants and clipboards - more about that when the time comes.)
We were able to spend a lot of time in said village, and I went on my own a few times. Yes, the MAGA hat got a few looks, but I'm not sure how many people there knew what all that is about. No kidding, the CCTV network feeds the people what they want to feed them. There's the internet, but more on that too.
One of the things I've read about and know about regarding the many different countries of the world with their different peoples of different types, is that not so many parts of the world are high-trust societies. The term itself is not something I'd thought that much about until reading the illustrious Steve Sailer and his uber-illustrious commenters. Denmark (oops, almost forgot a small post about LEGOs) is such a place. China is not.
The business world is one thing - well, it's really something else entirely! Personally, what I've learned about China is that corruption exists widely at the low levels of society. Family, close friends, and guanxi connections (the latter being corruption itself) are trusted, but everyone outside is not to be trusted and is fair game for those with low morals.
That's what it comes down to, as those who I've trusted to give me the real scoop complain very much about Chinese morals. My opinion is that the 30 years of hard-core Communism (1949 to 1979 is the general range) and 2 or 3 decades more of war prior to that have knocked the morals out of the population. Of course that doesn't include everyone, and it may be changing for the better right now. Religion is nearly dead there. True, there are quite a few Christians, at least nominally. It's very hard for the Chinese people to leave the materialism behind in any way though, even if supposedly Christian. Additionally, they have had to go back underground, as this is all subject to the moods of the Man in Peking. (We got to see his quarters from afar, across some lake at a park.)
However, I was impressed with the general friendliness of unacquainted Chinese people with each other. I've always found them respectful. I figure you pretty much have to be, when you are forced to live so close together in large, large masses of humanity.
I may have written this elsewhere, but let me state again that the population density of China is MUCH HIGHER than the 4x America, as many might easily reckon. 1.4 Billion people is ~ 4 x our population (who knows, right Bill H?) on roughly the same land area ... no, wait. That's the error. At a quick glance our countries - barring Alaska and whatever China wants to claim, Taiwan, Japan, I dunno... - seem to be roughly the same size. However, that western 35-40% of what you see on the map is mountainous or high desert Tibet and Xinjiang (Uighur territory), with only a very small percentage (2%) of the population of the country.
Then, of the rest, so much of it is mountainous. I've seen it. No, I couldn't cover the country, but there are maps out there. America has got it's huge prairie and the lowlands of East. China has nothing like that much land that is easy to use and build on. My educated guess is that China is effectively 15 x denser in population - in populated areas - than America is.
So, yes, the Chinse people have got to be respectful or life would be that much more of a struggle, though there is one exception to this respectfulness that deserves its own post. Beyond that, I've seen strangers being very helpful to one another. This doesn't imply that high trust, necessarily, but just an acknowledgment that "we are all the same people, in this together." Of the many instances, one of our party asked an old lady on the street for the nearest bathroom. (It was a semi-desperate situation.) The lady not only helpfully pointed, but she watched us take a wrong turn around a corner and walked closer to correct us toward the spot... which was not actually a bathroom per se, but ... that's another story.
This was not in Peking though. I figure, as it is in other lands, things are different in the big city. This was still a village, even with the huge population, of people many of whom may not ever have traveled out of the province. They speak the same dialect, when they aren't forced into Mandarin. With so many people around, you can't nod to everyone you pass, and, heaven forbid, wave someone ahead of you on the road. Still, strangers will get into conversations pretty easily. They get loud, but it turns out that usually doesn't mean anything bad. They are just loud a lot.
People smile at and admire the little ones. Without knowing Chinese, I sensed a solidarity. Why wouldn't there be? After all, instead of what's now a Tower of Babel multicultural mess in modern America, China has over a Billion*** Han people, united in a few centuries to 3 1/2 Millennia of history together.
We had something like that here, going back a half a century, even if it were only 2-3 centuries of living together AND added to that was the high-trust society that comes generally from the northwestern European peoples. There still are small towns that haven't been purposely ruined and neighborhoods in which Americans are friendly and help each other. China's got a whole country like that though. I think they aim to keep it that way - the unity anyway.
* Yes, that's the word my host used again, and argument with an Unz Review commenter on this or not, that's the word that the Chinese use.
** I will stick to the old English name throughout. I do realize that many Chinamen would not even recognize this name anymore. The International (IATA) code for the NEWER BIG (Daxing - opened in '19) airport is PKX, while the old one - still BIG and now called Capital City, has the code PEK. Case closed.
*** There are some minority groups, but these people are not as estranged, angry, and genetically different as the ones in America. More on this too. "Scores of posts ...", as I wrote before.
Comments:
Littlereddot
Monday - August 28th 2023 7:40PM MST
PS
I came from the Unz Review, and I am cross posting my comment here.
Thank you for your link. I enjoy reading other people’s views of things that I am already familiar with. It brings a certain freshness to an old subject.
Firstly, let me compliment you on your blog. I briefly read a few articles and found them generally accurate and honest, and highly praiseworthy.
Most of all, I am pleased whenever a Westerner travels eastward to see the subject for himself, rather than believing the MSM narrative about it.
One comment tho…your reading of “guanxi”, is not fully accurate. It is mostly viewed in the West in negative terms, like a “illegal drug network” or a “child prostitution ring”. But it is actually nothing of the sort. It is simply recommendations of business parties that have proven reliable and honest.
When you speak with Chinese and use this term, do they look over their shoulders to check if anyone is listening, and respond in a low hush voice? No, they will speak with you about it like there is nothing to be ashamed about….because that is what it is to them. Before the days of Google reviews, “guanxi” was simply an efficient way of getting the best business contacts without all the hits and misses of randomly trying out new parties.
If you understand the Chinese personality, and how it favours practicality and efficiency, over complicated heavy contractual frameworks, you will understand why “guanxi” is important to them. They would much rather use a recommended tried and tested new business party to perform a certain task, than to “waste time” drawing up a rock solid contract in order to ensure that said party performs that very same task. I hope I am making sense to you.
I give you an example. You have been ripped off by many car mechanics. So the last time you tried out a new mechanic, you were careful with him. As it happily turns out, you find the guy good at his work and honest in that he doesn’t “invent” problems with your car and persuades you to spend money fixing it. In other words you trust him.
One day while having your car fixed and you are chatting with him, you mention that you are looking for a new sofa, and how you have been ripped off by many furniture stores. He tells you his buddy has a furniture store, and that if you mention that the mechanic sent you, he will give you the best deal.
Because you trust the honest personality of the mechanic you go to his buddy and as it turns out, he really does give a good deal. Now whenever your own friends are looking for new furniture, you recommend them to this furniture store.
Congratulations, you have formed your own “guanxi”. There is nothing nefarious about it. It is just an efficient way to get things done.
I came from the Unz Review, and I am cross posting my comment here.
Thank you for your link. I enjoy reading other people’s views of things that I am already familiar with. It brings a certain freshness to an old subject.
Firstly, let me compliment you on your blog. I briefly read a few articles and found them generally accurate and honest, and highly praiseworthy.
Most of all, I am pleased whenever a Westerner travels eastward to see the subject for himself, rather than believing the MSM narrative about it.
One comment tho…your reading of “guanxi”, is not fully accurate. It is mostly viewed in the West in negative terms, like a “illegal drug network” or a “child prostitution ring”. But it is actually nothing of the sort. It is simply recommendations of business parties that have proven reliable and honest.
When you speak with Chinese and use this term, do they look over their shoulders to check if anyone is listening, and respond in a low hush voice? No, they will speak with you about it like there is nothing to be ashamed about….because that is what it is to them. Before the days of Google reviews, “guanxi” was simply an efficient way of getting the best business contacts without all the hits and misses of randomly trying out new parties.
If you understand the Chinese personality, and how it favours practicality and efficiency, over complicated heavy contractual frameworks, you will understand why “guanxi” is important to them. They would much rather use a recommended tried and tested new business party to perform a certain task, than to “waste time” drawing up a rock solid contract in order to ensure that said party performs that very same task. I hope I am making sense to you.
I give you an example. You have been ripped off by many car mechanics. So the last time you tried out a new mechanic, you were careful with him. As it happily turns out, you find the guy good at his work and honest in that he doesn’t “invent” problems with your car and persuades you to spend money fixing it. In other words you trust him.
One day while having your car fixed and you are chatting with him, you mention that you are looking for a new sofa, and how you have been ripped off by many furniture stores. He tells you his buddy has a furniture store, and that if you mention that the mechanic sent you, he will give you the best deal.
Because you trust the honest personality of the mechanic you go to his buddy and as it turns out, he really does give a good deal. Now whenever your own friends are looking for new furniture, you recommend them to this furniture store.
Congratulations, you have formed your own “guanxi”. There is nothing nefarious about it. It is just an efficient way to get things done.
Moderator
Thursday - August 24th 2023 8:03PM MST
PS: Hello, SafeNow. Sorry for the very late reply - busy day here.
Those are good questions. I would go with your point that the Chinese are more used to living together, and like to do so even in rural areas. Can it be genetic after 3,500 years? Maybe.
Indeed, NYC is know for rudeness, whether really that true or not, though I'd put it below Boston, Mass on that score, based on personal observation. In the US the rule seems to be that the lesser density, the friendlier people.
One thing I didn't mean to imply is that Chinese people on the street are all "Howdy" to a stranger, making lots of eye contact, and "No, you first." "No, go ahead please!" It's nothing like that. I believe their personality is on the opposite end from black people, with hispanic, then White, then Oriental, as far as emotional outbursts or getting upset at the drop of a hat. Therefore, they can be so close together and not get on each others nerves, at least outwardly.
They are not necessarily polite, but they are respectful enough so that millions of people can be out and about, yet there's no big outburst, fist fight, whatever, maybe in the whole city all week. (No, I don't know the numbers, but I don't see anything even approaching that.
Those are good questions. I would go with your point that the Chinese are more used to living together, and like to do so even in rural areas. Can it be genetic after 3,500 years? Maybe.
Indeed, NYC is know for rudeness, whether really that true or not, though I'd put it below Boston, Mass on that score, based on personal observation. In the US the rule seems to be that the lesser density, the friendlier people.
One thing I didn't mean to imply is that Chinese people on the street are all "Howdy" to a stranger, making lots of eye contact, and "No, you first." "No, go ahead please!" It's nothing like that. I believe their personality is on the opposite end from black people, with hispanic, then White, then Oriental, as far as emotional outbursts or getting upset at the drop of a hat. Therefore, they can be so close together and not get on each others nerves, at least outwardly.
They are not necessarily polite, but they are respectful enough so that millions of people can be out and about, yet there's no big outburst, fist fight, whatever, maybe in the whole city all week. (No, I don't know the numbers, but I don't see anything even approaching that.
SafeNow
Thursday - August 24th 2023 12:18PM MST
PS
Fascinating, thank you. I now find myself trying to figure-out the density/ friendliness paradox. Your observation is that because Han people are living that densely, they must be polite and tolerant to each other. That makes sense. But in the US, it might be in the opposite. For years, New York City was voted the rudest city in the country. Rural places in the US have the reputation for being polite and friendly. A recent analysis and ranking for “politeness” found that Montana was number one (and my California, a dense place, was last by far. ) I am thinking that the answer to the paradox might be that the Chinese possess a personality trait for politeness, partially wired-in, partially cultural, party due to homogeneity.
Fascinating, thank you. I now find myself trying to figure-out the density/ friendliness paradox. Your observation is that because Han people are living that densely, they must be polite and tolerant to each other. That makes sense. But in the US, it might be in the opposite. For years, New York City was voted the rudest city in the country. Rural places in the US have the reputation for being polite and friendly. A recent analysis and ranking for “politeness” found that Montana was number one (and my California, a dense place, was last by far. ) I am thinking that the answer to the paradox might be that the Chinese possess a personality trait for politeness, partially wired-in, partially cultural, party due to homogeneity.
You're not gonna like everything you read here, especially what I'm about to post in 5 minutes. Some of this is opinion, and some of it is fact. I try to be accurate with both.
On the Guanxi, thanks for your opinion. I do get your point, and your car mechanic/furniture sales example is a good one. However, let me expand on that in another post here.
I read your comment (the same, as far as I can tell) on The Unz Review already. I was going to reply there shortly.
Thanks for writing in, sir.