Posted On: Wednesday - November 1st 2023 5:59PM MST
In Topics: Curmudgeonry Economics Big-Biz Stupidity
... for the Big Biz world of corporate hustlers.
There's a lot of encouragement from Big Business to us peon customers to switch to autopay for recurring billing. The convenience of it is a siren song for the weak of principle. Yeah, well, you'll save a stamp and check each month, which add up to nearly a buck.* More importantly is that time saved. They seem to have a point.
However, one loses a couple of important things with autopay, leverage and privacy. Regarding the former, it's harder to argue over bogus, or even correct, charges on a bill when you've already given them the money. These companies like to have the money steadily rolling in. If you owe a bill and don't agree, I've found it's easier to dispute something when you can threaten to withhold that steady money. "I'll change companies", you can tell them, either way, but with autopay you're caught up and they've got your card number. You won't be able to stiff them quite so easily if they deserve it.
This reminds me of the escrow account I used to have for the mortgage, insurance, and taxes on a house. (They told me I HAD to have that, and I was young and naive.) "Hey, your insurance went way up, gotta up your payment. Don't worry, we already paid the insurance company. You're good!" It was much better when I was handling the money.
...and, what's a post office?
As for the loss of privacy with autopay, that's just gotten worse. We grudgingly went along with it on our phone plan. That was due to the deal that said we'd be paying $10 more monthly if we didn't. It's a big win for Big Business, as they don't like the deadbeats. Autopay assures them that they can cut off the potential deadbeats while not yet at a loss. WE'RE not deadbeats though, and I highly resent our being treated like we are!
The phone company had our credit card in their files for a couple of years, well, with the continual turnover of the actual card info due to scammers. ( 2 1/2 years back Peak Stupidity posted some information I'd never known about before then regarding the updating of card info, which itself can be automatic - for good or ill. That was in the 2-part post Visa Account Updater: Part 1 - - Part 2.)
Now THAT's not good enough. No, I suppose too many people are still disputing charges. Even with the lack of leverage from the automatic payment schedule, one can call the CC company and put put some charges in limbo. (I am having a brain fart on the term and can't find it.) This phone company now wants either a Debit Card on file or a bank account routing number. To put my feelings bluntly, NO FUCKING WAY!
They have no business knowing this info. At the phone store, when told I wouldn't be using a CC, asked me "OK, then, do you have a debit card? Oh, don't worry - you can just get me your bank account routing number." "Uhh, no. I guess I need to get bills in the mail again." He gotta a little miffed at that, I must say.
So be it, $120 more yearly for this (+ the checks and stamps), but I have my peace of mind and satisfaction. Part of the satisfaction is in knowing that Big Biz HATES HATE HATES this old fashioned paper stuff now. They have to keep contracts with companies that do the printing and mailing, and others that do the opening and data entry! The Philippines has plenty of young men and ladies who can do this, of course.
Yeah, and they are so not into this stuff that the latest bill has the outside envelope printed upside down. With the writing read normally, the envelope flap/seal is on the bottom. Is it just the normal incompetence these days, or are they not even trying? Ha! Better keep killing those trees for me, Big Biz, because you are the ones that brought this on!
PS: I just mailed it off. The account # was so tiny that I had to use the phone camera and enlarge the resulting picture to see it for writing it on the check. I put it in equally tiny writing.
* I've written before that sometimes I pay ahead by 3, 4, even 6 months, a net gain monetarily in the era of basement-level interest rates, but that's changing. It saves on stamps, checks, and, most importantly time. However, that depends on how much I trust the outfit to not change prices or screw me on a charge.
Comments:
Moderator
Saturday - November 4th 2023 10:14AM MST
PS: I appreciate the info on the Chime banking system, Adam. That $3.74 on the $500 max for that BlueBird Amex deal is significant, if you seriously use it. Imagine doing that once a month. Since you can't have more than $500 in there, you can't PUT more than that at a time, as you said, meaning in that year you'd be paying WalMart 9% yearly... on money that LOSES its value at what, about the same right now, so it's like double the loss.
I like the way you do business. I'd have done the same thing, bringing the account down to peanuts. Regarding the Trump Bucks, principles are good, but I agree with Mrs. Smith that this won't teach anyone a thing or influence them and will do you nothing but harm. (Whatever taxes you pay go for the - OK, the interest on, since it'll never be paid off - the Trump Bucks that go to everyone else.) That includes my family, as we got 2 checks in '20, as I recall.
Not only that, but we got one more EBT card from the school district not so long ago, maybe 3 months back! I don't know what it was about, TBH. It has, well, had, over $100 on it, and as you wrote, what would throwing it out do good for anybody?
I like the way you do business. I'd have done the same thing, bringing the account down to peanuts. Regarding the Trump Bucks, principles are good, but I agree with Mrs. Smith that this won't teach anyone a thing or influence them and will do you nothing but harm. (Whatever taxes you pay go for the - OK, the interest on, since it'll never be paid off - the Trump Bucks that go to everyone else.) That includes my family, as we got 2 checks in '20, as I recall.
Not only that, but we got one more EBT card from the school district not so long ago, maybe 3 months back! I don't know what it was about, TBH. It has, well, had, over $100 on it, and as you wrote, what would throwing it out do good for anybody?
Adam Smith
Friday - November 3rd 2023 2:20PM MST
PS: Greetings, Achmed,
"The question remains as to will they take the Wal-Mart cards that are NOT linked to a bank account?"
Uh... While I don't have a WalMart brand WalMart card, I do have an American Express BlueBird card (that I use for online shopping), which was originally a partnership between Amex and WalMart until recently when WalMart rolled out the WalMart brand WalMart card. (That's a whole lot of WalMart in one sentence. A new record?)
Anyway... Every debit card I've ever had, including the Amex BlueBird card ,is linked to a proper(ish) FDIC bank account, though it does have some limits on how much cash you can deposit in a day and perhaps a maximum balance limit.(?) Think of it as a bank account without the brick and mortar bank location. You can send checks, do wire transfers, direct deposit and all the standard ACH functions you would have with a regular bank account... Because it is a bank account. (That's why they won't give you one without a social slave number.)
Now it's entirely possible that the WalMart card is different, but I would be surprised if that's the case.
If you're looking for something like a WalMart debit card you might consider a Chime account. I opened up a Chime account so I could have a brand new account that Uncle Sugar could direct deposit those PanicFest TrumpBucks* into. (If they can direct deposit, they can direct withdrawal!)
As far as I can tell Chime is a non-brick and mortar bank account, checking and savings (which even paid interest a couple years ago when nobody did! Currently it pays 2%.), FDIC insured with all the wire transfer and ACH functions. There are some limits to how much cash I can deposit in a day. (But I just this minute learned that I can deposit $1000 a day for free at any Walgreens location.**)
Chime seems very nice though admittedly I haven't used it for much. I used it only for receiving my TrumpBucks and then used it at the grocery for shopping (withdrawing $100 cash with each transaction) until I worked the balance down to $6.27 which is where I've left it. I haven't used it for anything else. But it's never charged me any sort of fee and my $6.27 is still there (three years later). It also has two factor authentication, which is kinda nice.
https://www.chime.com/
* Full disclosure: I wasn't going to take the TrumpBucks out of principle... Until one night when Mrs. Smith convinced me to take the TrumpBucks as my principled stand would have no effect on the whole scheme or the inflation that would be caused by all that so called stimulus cash. She said I should go ahead and take the $3200, or whatever it was, because everyone else was doing it and why not. So I did. I filed my zero return just before the deadline. (The first tax return I had filed in more than 20 years!) Oddly enough, even though I was the last to apply for it, I was the first among the people I know to receive my TrumpBucks. (Each of the three rounds.) Weird.
** I might start using my Chime account for online shopping because my Amex BlueBird card now costs me $3.74 ($500 max) to reload at WalMart. (Used to be free until recently when WalMart introduced the WalMart debit card.) Maybe I'll head on down to the local Walgreens and throw $1000 on it?
Too Long, didn't read:
Debit cards (the ones I've had such as United Community Bank, Amex Bluebird and Chime) are linked to checking accounts.
Cheers! ☮
"The question remains as to will they take the Wal-Mart cards that are NOT linked to a bank account?"
Uh... While I don't have a WalMart brand WalMart card, I do have an American Express BlueBird card (that I use for online shopping), which was originally a partnership between Amex and WalMart until recently when WalMart rolled out the WalMart brand WalMart card. (That's a whole lot of WalMart in one sentence. A new record?)
Anyway... Every debit card I've ever had, including the Amex BlueBird card ,is linked to a proper(ish) FDIC bank account, though it does have some limits on how much cash you can deposit in a day and perhaps a maximum balance limit.(?) Think of it as a bank account without the brick and mortar bank location. You can send checks, do wire transfers, direct deposit and all the standard ACH functions you would have with a regular bank account... Because it is a bank account. (That's why they won't give you one without a social slave number.)
Now it's entirely possible that the WalMart card is different, but I would be surprised if that's the case.
If you're looking for something like a WalMart debit card you might consider a Chime account. I opened up a Chime account so I could have a brand new account that Uncle Sugar could direct deposit those PanicFest TrumpBucks* into. (If they can direct deposit, they can direct withdrawal!)
As far as I can tell Chime is a non-brick and mortar bank account, checking and savings (which even paid interest a couple years ago when nobody did! Currently it pays 2%.), FDIC insured with all the wire transfer and ACH functions. There are some limits to how much cash I can deposit in a day. (But I just this minute learned that I can deposit $1000 a day for free at any Walgreens location.**)
Chime seems very nice though admittedly I haven't used it for much. I used it only for receiving my TrumpBucks and then used it at the grocery for shopping (withdrawing $100 cash with each transaction) until I worked the balance down to $6.27 which is where I've left it. I haven't used it for anything else. But it's never charged me any sort of fee and my $6.27 is still there (three years later). It also has two factor authentication, which is kinda nice.
https://www.chime.com/
* Full disclosure: I wasn't going to take the TrumpBucks out of principle... Until one night when Mrs. Smith convinced me to take the TrumpBucks as my principled stand would have no effect on the whole scheme or the inflation that would be caused by all that so called stimulus cash. She said I should go ahead and take the $3200, or whatever it was, because everyone else was doing it and why not. So I did. I filed my zero return just before the deadline. (The first tax return I had filed in more than 20 years!) Oddly enough, even though I was the last to apply for it, I was the first among the people I know to receive my TrumpBucks. (Each of the three rounds.) Weird.
** I might start using my Chime account for online shopping because my Amex BlueBird card now costs me $3.74 ($500 max) to reload at WalMart. (Used to be free until recently when WalMart introduced the WalMart debit card.) Maybe I'll head on down to the local Walgreens and throw $1000 on it?
Too Long, didn't read:
Debit cards (the ones I've had such as United Community Bank, Amex Bluebird and Chime) are linked to checking accounts.
Cheers! ☮
Moderator
Friday - November 3rd 2023 9:47AM MST
PS: Oops, Tarheel and other readers - I wrote that backwards! No, they WILL take debit cards, but not regular credit cards. They want a link to your bank acct. in some way.
The question remains as to will they take the Wal-Mart cards that are NOT linked to a bank account? I guess if the lady at the store suggested it, then it must work, or already BE working for you, 70's Tarheel. I will ask these people - they may have their own more strict policy based on having a more deadbeat clientele. From their commercials on youtube, I could believe that!
The question remains as to will they take the Wal-Mart cards that are NOT linked to a bank account? I guess if the lady at the store suggested it, then it must work, or already BE working for you, 70's Tarheel. I will ask these people - they may have their own more strict policy based on having a more deadbeat clientele. From their commercials on youtube, I could believe that!
Moderator
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 8:26AM MST
PS: I like your effort, Tarheel. Those debit cards from Wal-Mart can be pretty anonymous too, depending on how you do it. The thing with my phone company though, is that they won't take DEBIT cards now. That's where I drew the line. I don't think they'd take these Wal-Mart ones, but I'm not sure.
I hope they don't go that way with your accounts.
I hope they don't go that way with your accounts.
Moderator
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 8:23AM MST
PS: Mr. Hail, re: Ron DeSantis and his ad. I don't know. One can see that this ad is all about "this guy is a leader", well it says that and "he gets specific things done!" Why they led with the Israeli evacuation may be for reasons you suspect, but I also think it was just in order of relevance.
Yeah, of course, the border invasion is MOST important, relevant, anything like that, but he may have put it at the end because it was a more vague description of his efforts. I like the ad. Yeah, that first part may be a hit with constituents on the southern Atlantic coast...
Yeah, of course, the border invasion is MOST important, relevant, anything like that, but he may have put it at the end because it was a more vague description of his efforts. I like the ad. Yeah, that first part may be a hit with constituents on the southern Atlantic coast...
Moderator
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 8:21AM MST
PS: It'll be right at a month from now when I'll check that, Adam. As per this post, I just mailed off this month's payment.
M
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 7:26AM MST
PS
Also, the clerks are less likely to fiddle with the till - you can do things like fake charges I guess, but that would require more brainpower, and also likely more serious charges when caught.
Also, the clerks are less likely to fiddle with the till - you can do things like fake charges I guess, but that would require more brainpower, and also likely more serious charges when caught.
M
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 7:23AM MST
PS
"if they're a store and they take cash, why wouldn't they?"
If they're likely to get robbed, the criminals likely won't get caught or charged. Cash is extremely portable. Credit card slips not so much.
"if they're a store and they take cash, why wouldn't they?"
If they're likely to get robbed, the criminals likely won't get caught or charged. Cash is extremely portable. Credit card slips not so much.
70sTarheel
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 5:29AM MST
PS: We moved to another state a couple of months ago and had to set up new accounts Even the utility companies want auto pay. A nice young lady at the phone store suggested getting a debit card from Wal Mart and loading it every month with the amounts to be paid. Pain in the rear, but we are saving about $50 per month.
The Alarmist
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 4:22AM MST
PS
Coïncidence that ‘autopay’ puts the ‘a’ in the ‘s’ of ‘autopsy’ ?
When someone tells me there is no ‘I’ in ‘TEAM’, I tell them to again to look at the A-holes.
Peace, out!
🕉
Coïncidence that ‘autopay’ puts the ‘a’ in the ‘s’ of ‘autopsy’ ?
When someone tells me there is no ‘I’ in ‘TEAM’, I tell them to again to look at the A-holes.
Peace, out!
🕉
Adam Smith
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 9:10PM MST
PS: Greetings, Mr. Hail,
re: "tax filing"
“All people still have to do that curious thing called "filing taxes" every year...”
Not all of us, Mr. Hail.
re: Desantis
“DeSantis deployed troops to the southern border to stop the invasion...”
Interesting that he started the ad with bringing the poor powerless jews home from Israel.
Quite a bit of military imagery in one little 30 second clip. Thanks for the link.
☮
re: "tax filing"
“All people still have to do that curious thing called "filing taxes" every year...”
Not all of us, Mr. Hail.
re: Desantis
“DeSantis deployed troops to the southern border to stop the invasion...”
Interesting that he started the ad with bringing the poor powerless jews home from Israel.
Quite a bit of military imagery in one little 30 second clip. Thanks for the link.
☮
Hail
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 8:44PM MST
PS
-- New DeSantis ad --
The Ron DeSantis campaign has released its first television ad for the Iowa campaigning-season, now underway (voting/"caucus" day, mid-January 2024):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyuWRwCnWj8
I think it goes in the wrong direction by opening with a boast that he evacuated people from Israel while Biden failed to evacuate the threatened Jews. As I've said on these pages before, the DeSantis people couch the "Israel evacuations to Florida" matter as like a hurricane response. And he mentions that next. Finally, it's a somewhat-halfhearted mention of U.S.-Mexico border security.
I am not sure if leading with it in his Iowa ad is misguided or not from a vote-getting perspective, but I think it's a bad idea overall.
-- New DeSantis ad --
The Ron DeSantis campaign has released its first television ad for the Iowa campaigning-season, now underway (voting/"caucus" day, mid-January 2024):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyuWRwCnWj8
I think it goes in the wrong direction by opening with a boast that he evacuated people from Israel while Biden failed to evacuate the threatened Jews. As I've said on these pages before, the DeSantis people couch the "Israel evacuations to Florida" matter as like a hurricane response. And he mentions that next. Finally, it's a somewhat-halfhearted mention of U.S.-Mexico border security.
I am not sure if leading with it in his Iowa ad is misguided or not from a vote-getting perspective, but I think it's a bad idea overall.
Hail
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 8:39PM MST
PS
Your argument here on the value of avoiding AutoPay reminds me of the supposed reason that automatic "tax filing" has been opposed in the USA for so long, such that all people still have to do that curious thing called "filing taxes" every year (and Peak Stupidity gets has gotten some mileage off that whole "tax filing" thing).
Most ordinary people in other Western countries, it is said, do no such thing as "filing taxes." Unless highly interested in the matter in a Sailer-like "numbers"-kind-of way, they simply don't pay attention to how much income tax is taken away. Their "taxes are done" on AutoPay, you might say.
Your argument here on the value of avoiding AutoPay reminds me of the supposed reason that automatic "tax filing" has been opposed in the USA for so long, such that all people still have to do that curious thing called "filing taxes" every year (and Peak Stupidity gets has gotten some mileage off that whole "tax filing" thing).
Most ordinary people in other Western countries, it is said, do no such thing as "filing taxes." Unless highly interested in the matter in a Sailer-like "numbers"-kind-of way, they simply don't pay attention to how much income tax is taken away. Their "taxes are done" on AutoPay, you might say.
Adam Smith
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 7:46PM MST
PS: It's worth a try.
I mean, if they're a store and they take cash, why wouldn't they?
☮
I mean, if they're a store and they take cash, why wouldn't they?
☮
Moderator
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 7:16PM MST
PS: I wonder if they'd even take cash for payments at the local phone store - it's mostly a sales operation, but then they've got a steady stream of deadbeats who come in to pay in a big hurry to keep their phones working!
I should try that, come to think of it.
I should try that, come to think of it.
Adam Smith
Wednesday - November 1st 2023 6:56PM MST
PS: Good evening, Achmed,
"Autopay - it's sooooo convenient..."
Well, cash is pretty convenient too...
☮
"Autopay - it's sooooo convenient..."
Well, cash is pretty convenient too...
☮
"I appreciate the info on the Chime banking system, Adam. That $3.74 on the $500 max for that BlueBird Amex deal is significant, if you seriously use it. Imagine doing that once a month. Since you can't have more than $500 in there, you can't PUT more than that at a time, as you said, meaning in that year you'd be paying WalMart 9% yearly... on money that LOSES its value at what, about the same right now, so it's like double the loss."
9% ??? - I think something got lost in the translation.
I used to be able to put some cash on the Bluebird card at WalMart for free, until recently. As I use it exclusively for online shopping I don't really like leaving a large balance on it (you know, in case someone's database gets hacked or something). (BlueBird says I can put $100,000 into the account annually. Not sure what that means exactly?)(Chime says something similar about $100,000 annually and/or $10,000 monthly for cash deposits. I don't know if there are any limits when it comes to wire transfers or direct deposits, which is what these companies seem to prefer.)
I'll usually leave a balance of a few hundred or so, unless I know I'm making a large purchase. But now they charge me $3.74 for a cash deposit transaction, with a max of $500 per transaction.
I can fill it for free at Family Dollar, but the nearest Family Dollar is in Gainesville, about an hour away. (But it is near Atlanta Highway Seafood Market, so if I'm over there for lunch I could go throw a few bucks on the card.)(But it is sort of shady in that part of town. Or well, shadier than I'm used to. I'd rather take $1000 with me to Dahlonega Walgreens than be seen making large cash transactions at a Family Dollar in that part of Gainesville.)(It would probably be fine, but the population of Gainesville is quite a bit darker than Dahlonega.)
I don't know where your 9% figure came from. $3.74 on a $500 transaction is .748% meaning I'm paying WalMart about 3/4 of a percent for the privilege of not riding to Gainesville to put some digits on my card. (Unless I'm missing something.) Even if I were to spend $6000 a year shopping online (I don't) it would only cost me $44.88 for the privilege of reloading my digits at WalMart.
Yeah, you and Mrs. Smith are correct. While it's good to have principles, (Mrs. Smith didn't want her TrumpBucks either) in this case it would have changed nothing (except leaving me without $3200 for groceries and such) by declining the TrumpBucks. I'm sure Uncle Sugar couldn't care less if I passed on the $3200. It was all borrowed into existence anyway and they would have used it for something else. And a shit ton got lost to fraud. Hell, billions went to scammers overseas.
https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/17744-us-billions-of-dollars-lost-in-covid-19-relief-fund-fraud
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664
Had a couple hundred million Americans stood up and said no to the stimulus check nonsense, well, that could (would?) have made a difference. But it seems most people just thought it was free money* and they had no idea how it would cause inflation. (Seems nobody places any blame on Trump for the inflationary effects his policies helped cause.)
My $3200 was a tiny drop in the bucket when compared to the 8(ish) trillion (with a T) of new debt that accumulated under Trump's watch.
* I've seen some people make this free money argument about reparations for the Africans in America. They say it won't cause inflation or cost the taxcattle anything because "the money will be coming from the government." It's utterly amazing how retarded some people truly are.
PS. Mrs. Smith says fuck your cell phone company for wanting a debit card or routing number for payment. She says she wouldn't back down on this. (For the same reasons you stated.) She would change companies before she gave them a debit card or routing number for autopay.
So, yeah. Happy Saturday! ☮