Posted On: Thursday - November 2nd 2023 8:12AM MST
In Topics: China Economics Peak Stupidity Roadshow
It's high time Peak Stupidity got back to writing about our impressions of China. Our visit to what they may still erroneously call "The Middle Kingdom" was 3 months ago.
Before I go on, let me state that I will definitely discuss the long Evan Osno New Yorker article, CHINA'S AGE OF MALAISE, that commenter Adam Smith so kindly pasted in a portion of* under this post. This visit to China did not give me the ability to know the big economic picture that Mr. Osno's article discusses. I don't speak Chinese, and not everyone wanted to talk about everything. I asked the questions I could, however, and I can extrapolate a lot from the things I did see.
I've noted before a few things about the Chinese style of residing, living arrangements, that is. For whatever long-term cultural, maybe even genetic reason, Chinese people seem to want to live together, even out in the country. Out in the farmland, there will be an (actually small) village - maybe 50 or a couple of hundred people - all close together in concrete structures. In America the 10 to 25 families would rather live spread out on their own plots of land.
Another aspect of Chinese housing is that there's some deal in which the government - local, of some sort - has responsibility for the outside of buildings, including even detached (as well, as they can be) houses. I'm sure there must be exceptions, where, hell, NOBODY takes care of the outside, but that's what it looks like anyway. It's the "tragedy of the commons" as applied to Better Homes & Gardens. They work to keep their family in veggies, herbs, chickens, what-have-you, but there's not an incentive to beautify the outside. I guess our incentive is to keep up with the Jones, but also fresh paint, shutters, trees, well, we like that sort of thing.
China is changing rapidly though. Not everyone is middle class, and even most of that middle class don't make the money America's working class does. However, they want to to live the Chinese Dream, first dreamt by, of all people, a man named George Jefferson of Astoria, Queens, NY City, as he dreamed of moving up to that "dee-lux apartment in the sky-high-high... ♫♪♪ "
The image above shows one such apartment building, as seen from a detached house. Originally an ~ 600 ft2 one-story damp and dark concrete structure with a straw roof, this now 3-story place is very nice inside. The interior decorator could have been a homosexual out of West Hollywood, California, if one hadn't known any better. The outside, well... also "detached" is technically correct, but there's been a Chinese Coke can stuck between it and the neighboring place for years. The maintenance guy's name is Coe Roe Xian, best I could make out.
The image** above shows a row of new places in this village. There are hundreds more, no exaggeration here. These ones are a little shorter, but most of these residential buildings have 25 to 35 stories, from what I've seen.
Housing is not cheap, even when compared to American wages. The apartments I visited were in the range of 750 ft2, but in this area were the 2 bedrooms, a living room, pseudo kitchen, and 2 bathrooms. Rooms are small, that's all. Even in a 2nd tier (as they call it) big city - not the village shown here - prices in the city outskirts are in the range of $400/ft2, so we're talking here $300,000! I will discuss the disparity between prices, rents, and affordability in another post.
That juxtaposition of the old China and the new China can be seen all over, with the new China gaining lots of ground. How great is the New China? That's another story.
PS: As I checked the comments to semi-link to the Evan Osnos article, I remembered Mr. Hail's link to a James Kunstler (of Clusterfuck Nation - he must have rid himself of that non-family-friendly blog name) podcast with the Mao Sackhanger Godfree Roberts. I may give that a listen. There's no transcript, and it would be interesting to hear his voice. I don't think the guy's a troll, unfortunately...
* [Pasting in the whole thing might be some sort of infringement of something ..., so we've only got 99.9983%, as Adam left out an unlaut or something ... - PS Legal Dept.] He gave us a nice working link too - didn't notice and read the whole thing in black on mint green.
** I doctored up the Chinese characters on the banner on that new construction just in case. It's pretty easy to make Chinese characters illegible... for me, anyway!
Comments:
Barry
Tuesday - November 14th 2023 6:58AM MST
PS Moderator if there is a way to direct message you or otherwise contact you I would like to talk about China (if you have the time) Thanks
Moderator
Tuesday - November 7th 2023 8:31PM MST
PS: Thanks for the reply, Barry, and sorry for being so late replying back. Are your granddaughters Chinese citizens then? It sounded like they are living there permanently.
Anyway, I can't say myself that I haven't seen a lot of overweight Chinese people. Obese? No, maybe one or two out of many 10's of thousands seen in one city over a few days. I have seen lots of women in the 10-25 lb overweight range though. That doesn't preclude there being so many with very fine bodies either, as there are a LOT of people over there! You reminded me to write one post on this, but it wasn't going to be a whole lot more than what I just wrote.
Yes, there are lots of Chinese made cars of many brands. Did you see my post about the TrumpChi? I kid you not. I thought it was built after Trump was President, or after '16 or so, but no, the company started up in '10. That's just weird. Got pictures, with one in this post:
https://www.peakstupidity.com/index.php?post=2694
"Dispatches from the Middle Kingdom: Oh, the cars you'll see!"
We saw a TrumpChi dealer even, both ways when traveling to the great wall in Peking.
Anyway, I can't say myself that I haven't seen a lot of overweight Chinese people. Obese? No, maybe one or two out of many 10's of thousands seen in one city over a few days. I have seen lots of women in the 10-25 lb overweight range though. That doesn't preclude there being so many with very fine bodies either, as there are a LOT of people over there! You reminded me to write one post on this, but it wasn't going to be a whole lot more than what I just wrote.
Yes, there are lots of Chinese made cars of many brands. Did you see my post about the TrumpChi? I kid you not. I thought it was built after Trump was President, or after '16 or so, but no, the company started up in '10. That's just weird. Got pictures, with one in this post:
https://www.peakstupidity.com/index.php?post=2694
"Dispatches from the Middle Kingdom: Oh, the cars you'll see!"
We saw a TrumpChi dealer even, both ways when traveling to the great wall in Peking.
Barry
Tuesday - November 7th 2023 3:29AM MST
PS To answer you question, I do not speak Chinese. My daughter-in-law is a Chinese national, so I carry a cell phone at all times so if I have a problem, I call her and let her tell them what I need. I also have a translator app on my phone that helps. I am here to see my granddaughters. While everyone is at school or working I wander around on the bike or a scooter.
I enjoy visiting but I don't think I would want to live here. I think, if I wasn't so old and didn't miss my wife so much, I could catch "yellow fever". (not that they would want an old fart anyway). I see a lot of very good looking women. A fat one is rare. One change I have noted is the big increase in very nice looking domestic cars,(being sold in shopping malls). It was not long ago that almost all good looking cars were foreign. Most of the brands I have never even heard of.
I enjoy visiting but I don't think I would want to live here. I think, if I wasn't so old and didn't miss my wife so much, I could catch "yellow fever". (not that they would want an old fart anyway). I see a lot of very good looking women. A fat one is rare. One change I have noted is the big increase in very nice looking domestic cars,(being sold in shopping malls). It was not long ago that almost all good looking cars were foreign. Most of the brands I have never even heard of.
Moderator
Friday - November 3rd 2023 9:07PM MST
PS: Thanks for putting that into Ron Unz's newslinks, Mr. Hail. I will check out your comments under #2757.
Hail
Friday - November 3rd 2023 7:44PM MST
PS
-- Godfree Roberts interview promotion and Peak Stupidity "teaser" --
I posted a link to the J. H. Kunstler interview with Godfree Roberts at the Unz Review "Newslink" section.
I added that PeakStupidity.com may offer commentary on the interview when the time is right. That as a way to get the many Peak Stupidity fans out there to be interested in the Godfree Roberts interview and/or the work of J. H. Kunstler. So it won't just be Godfree Roberts fans (if any) directed across to yonder digital-shore.
-- Godfree Roberts interview promotion and Peak Stupidity "teaser" --
I posted a link to the J. H. Kunstler interview with Godfree Roberts at the Unz Review "Newslink" section.
I added that PeakStupidity.com may offer commentary on the interview when the time is right. That as a way to get the many Peak Stupidity fans out there to be interested in the Godfree Roberts interview and/or the work of J. H. Kunstler. So it won't just be Godfree Roberts fans (if any) directed across to yonder digital-shore.
Hail
Friday - November 3rd 2023 7:40PM MST
PS
I added some comments by S. Sridhar on the "China Malaise" article provided by Adam Smith.
S. Sridhar is an Indian defense analyst and commentator.
Reliable word has it that this man, Sridhar, is also a non-enemy of the Peak Stupidity mission.
("The promotion of world-betterment through institutionalized Stupidity-reduction strategies" being rumored to be one of the pitches made for the language of the mission-statement. This, sources say, came during the closed-door meeting of the high-flying international Board of the mighty Institute for the Study of Peak Stupidity, such meeting said to have been held at an undisclosed location last month.)
Search "Sridhar" at:
https://peakstupidity.com/index.php?post=2757
I added some comments by S. Sridhar on the "China Malaise" article provided by Adam Smith.
S. Sridhar is an Indian defense analyst and commentator.
Reliable word has it that this man, Sridhar, is also a non-enemy of the Peak Stupidity mission.
("The promotion of world-betterment through institutionalized Stupidity-reduction strategies" being rumored to be one of the pitches made for the language of the mission-statement. This, sources say, came during the closed-door meeting of the high-flying international Board of the mighty Institute for the Study of Peak Stupidity, such meeting said to have been held at an undisclosed location last month.)
Search "Sridhar" at:
https://peakstupidity.com/index.php?post=2757
Adam Smith
Friday - November 3rd 2023 11:04AM MST
PS: Good afternoon, everyone,
Ningbo China, a medium sized city near Shanghai. Population 8.202 million (2018).
Mr. Alarmist, I've heard about that happening. (People withdrawing cash and being questioned about it.) I would tell them it's none of their damn business. (Do they put someone on a list for that sort of insubordination?)
I guess this is why I'm a cash operator. I've thought about putting some cash in a CD (because 5.6% sounds pretty good), but with the way the world is headed I think I'd rather keep it under my mattress.
☮
Ningbo China, a medium sized city near Shanghai. Population 8.202 million (2018).
Mr. Alarmist, I've heard about that happening. (People withdrawing cash and being questioned about it.) I would tell them it's none of their damn business. (Do they put someone on a list for that sort of insubordination?)
I guess this is why I'm a cash operator. I've thought about putting some cash in a CD (because 5.6% sounds pretty good), but with the way the world is headed I think I'd rather keep it under my mattress.
☮
Moderator
Friday - November 3rd 2023 7:24AM MST
PS: Always great to hear dispatches out of Peak Stupidity's Ninbo Bureau. Thank you, Barry, and now back to ... (He's asleep now, so we won't get a correction immediately.)
Seriously, thanks for chiming in. The lack of graffiti doesn't sound like a big thing, but it's just so pleasant not to have to put up with the shit. I did mention this in a joking way in one of the posts about the high-speed rail system. I had a different experience with trash, but that's been changing too. As you say, rapidly.
Do you know any Mandarin, Barry, either speaking/listening or reading?
Seriously, thanks for chiming in. The lack of graffiti doesn't sound like a big thing, but it's just so pleasant not to have to put up with the shit. I did mention this in a joking way in one of the posts about the high-speed rail system. I had a different experience with trash, but that's been changing too. As you say, rapidly.
Do you know any Mandarin, Barry, either speaking/listening or reading?
Barry
Friday - November 3rd 2023 5:12AM MST
PS I am writing you from Ningbo China, which is a medium sized city near Shanghai. Things here seem to still be booming. Construction everywhere. Very little trash and no graffiti. I have been riding my bike in the park near here that has an amazing number of flowers. The there are a large number of workers keeping the place up. At American wages they would be extremely expensive.
We have been coming to China for about 15 years and the changes are stark.
We have been coming to China for about 15 years and the changes are stark.
The Alarmist
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 2:19PM MST
PS
I took a few grand in cash out of the bank recently, and was asked what it was for. It took all I had to not say “Hookers and blow,” which is what I might have said in friendlier times, when they might have understood it was a joke.
The West is quickly out-China-ing China.
I took a few grand in cash out of the bank recently, and was asked what it was for. It took all I had to not say “Hookers and blow,” which is what I might have said in friendlier times, when they might have understood it was a joke.
The West is quickly out-China-ing China.
MBlanc46
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 2:17PM MST
PS Yep, the Chinese are different. Culturally, genetically, and bioculturally. I have no problem with them, so long as they’re in China.
Adam Smith
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 11:08AM MST
PS: Greetings again, Achmed...
Hookers, blow, and analysis are all legitimate expenses.
No receipts necessary. (Keep cash king!)
☮
Hookers, blow, and analysis are all legitimate expenses.
No receipts necessary. (Keep cash king!)
☮
Moderator
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 10:55AM MST
PS: Thank you, Adam. I feel a whole lot better. I'd spent the whole morning in meatings and beatings since the PS Legal Dept. got wind of all this.
Yes, our Institute is non-profit. By end-o-year my $385,000 salary is down to zero, after you account for the money I've spent on hookers, blow, and analysis ... in cash - I can't find the receipts right now either. So, there's no profit in this.
Yes, our Institute is non-profit. By end-o-year my $385,000 salary is down to zero, after you account for the money I've spent on hookers, blow, and analysis ... in cash - I can't find the receipts right now either. So, there's no profit in this.
Adam Smith
Thursday - November 2nd 2023 10:48AM MST
PS: Greetings, Achmed!
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So... Cheers to a great afternoon!
& Happy Thursday! ☮
Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of uses—such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research—as examples of activities that may qualify as fair use...
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/
Some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. (The Sony Betamax case being one example.)
Given the fact that the Institute for the Study of Peak Stupidity is a premier non-profit, non-commercial, educational news organization with limited membership, I really don't think there will be any sort of trouble arising from our educational fair use of this work for our commentary, news reporting, research, and scholarly purposes.
So... Cheers to a great afternoon!
& Happy Thursday! ☮