Posted On: Monday - December 25th 2023 5:10PM MST
In Topics: Music Bible/Religion Holiday from Stupidity
Do any Peak Stupidity readers remember Christmas caroling? I do. My family is not filled with singers by any means, so we didn't go house to house ourselves. I remember people coming by to sing, and we would thank them and give them refreshments at the door. What a wonderful practice that was! We don't have the right country for that anymore, I'm afraid, except in a very few smaller enclaves of traditional American-ness.
So as not to be a total curmudgeon, 24 x 7 x 356 (or 6!), let me lay off another post I was going to write about modern church songs vs. traditional hymns. Here are 3 of my very favorite traditional Christmas songs.
Due to last-minute family arrangements, blog posts will be few and far between this week - hopefully 2 or 3 more, with lots of ideas for 'em but just not enough time.
Comments:
Hail
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 11:24PM MST
PS
Moderator wrote: "your discussion of the European host of Christianity for most of history is fortuitous because I just listened to a preacher who begs to differ."
Note well the caveat about things having changed over the course of the past century, maybe the past century-and-a-half at most. Only really visible in the past few decades.
Let me quote myself:
"...(But then came 19th-century Jewish Emancipation and other developments, including the rise of aggressive and politicized Feminism (NOTE: I meant to refer to the late 20th century by that), ultimately undermining the religion and its tradition in large part (see, e.g., the pro-Jewish "Rapture Theology" that spread like a noxious weed in the late-20th century)..."
Moderator wrote: "your discussion of the European host of Christianity for most of history is fortuitous because I just listened to a preacher who begs to differ."
Note well the caveat about things having changed over the course of the past century, maybe the past century-and-a-half at most. Only really visible in the past few decades.
Let me quote myself:
"...(But then came 19th-century Jewish Emancipation and other developments, including the rise of aggressive and politicized Feminism (NOTE: I meant to refer to the late 20th century by that), ultimately undermining the religion and its tradition in large part (see, e.g., the pro-Jewish "Rapture Theology" that spread like a noxious weed in the late-20th century)..."
Peak Stupidity Book Club
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 10:54PM MST
PS: Good evening, everyone,
Is There a Meaning in This Text?: The Bible, the Reader, and the Morality of Literary Knowledge
By Kevin J. Vanhoozer (3.5mb .pdf)
http://tinyurl.com/2p6hpdde
Cheers! ☮️
Is There a Meaning in This Text?: The Bible, the Reader, and the Morality of Literary Knowledge
By Kevin J. Vanhoozer (3.5mb .pdf)
http://tinyurl.com/2p6hpdde
Cheers! ☮️
Fred the Gator
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 10:29PM MST
PS The moderator wrote: "I just want to reply to Mr. Hail here, because your discussion of the European host of Christianity for most of history is fortuitous because I just listened to a preacher who begs to differ. He was full of it on this and on another major point and deserves a post here to come. He goes by the name of Dr. Kevin Vanhoozer."
I know of this guy! I read one of his books called "Is There a Meaning in This Text?: The Bible, the Reader, and the Morality of Literary Knowledge". Thought he was one of the good guys, though I recall the book ending on kind of a lame wokish note (IMHO of course).
I'm curious to hear what you have to say about him!
I know of this guy! I read one of his books called "Is There a Meaning in This Text?: The Bible, the Reader, and the Morality of Literary Knowledge". Thought he was one of the good guys, though I recall the book ending on kind of a lame wokish note (IMHO of course).
I'm curious to hear what you have to say about him!
Moderator
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 9:57PM MST
PS: Thanks for the story-filled comments, Adam, Fred, Bill, Alarmist, and Messrs. Ganderson and Hail. Great thread!
I just want to reply to Mr. Hail here, because your discussion of the European host of Christianity for most of history is fortuitous because I just listened to a preacher who begs to differ. He was full of it on this and on another major point and deserves a post here to come. He goes by the name of Dr. Kevin Vanhoozer.
I just want to reply to Mr. Hail here, because your discussion of the European host of Christianity for most of history is fortuitous because I just listened to a preacher who begs to differ. He was full of it on this and on another major point and deserves a post here to come. He goes by the name of Dr. Kevin Vanhoozer.
The Alarmist
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 1:48PM MST
PS
Christmas is the old Pagan festival of Saturnalia dressed up in Christ’s robes.
My father became “born again” later in life, and in his zeal to proselytize me, he once said, “You should come to church with me, son... you’ll meet lots of nice girls.” Shark Week as Christian festival is not out of the realm of possibility.
Remember, though, that Christmas is only half of the Christian story.
Peace on Earth
Purity of Essence
“You’ll have to answer to the Coca Cola®️ company!”
🕉✝️🙏
Christmas is the old Pagan festival of Saturnalia dressed up in Christ’s robes.
My father became “born again” later in life, and in his zeal to proselytize me, he once said, “You should come to church with me, son... you’ll meet lots of nice girls.” Shark Week as Christian festival is not out of the realm of possibility.
Remember, though, that Christmas is only half of the Christian story.
Peace on Earth
Purity of Essence
“You’ll have to answer to the Coca Cola®️ company!”
🕉✝️🙏
Fred the Gator
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 10:12AM MST
PS Responding to Hail. You're right, it's unlikely the birth of Christ came on Christmas. There are a number of theories when it actually happened, but I haven't tried to sort them out. For myself I just happen to like having Christmas "in the bleak mid-winter."
Along these lines, I saw something funny on VoxDay, reposting a conversation from twitter.
Skeptic: Easter was actually originally a pagan holiday!
Christian: Keep complaining and we’ll take Toyotathon
and make it a Christian holiday too.
Skeptic: But we...
Christian: You just lost Shark Week.
Skeptic: That’s not...
Christian: SHARK WEEK IS A WEEK-LONG CHRISTIAN FESTIVAL NOW
I think there's some biblical justification for this:
"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Yes, there's the inevitable adulteration of what is important in the Christian idea, but somewhere in there is the kernel and it often sprouts forth. Like Christ touching the unclean leper and making him clean, if the power of God is real it will be more powerful than that which opposes it, in the same way that light will overcome darkness simply by its presence.
Along these lines, I saw something funny on VoxDay, reposting a conversation from twitter.
Skeptic: Easter was actually originally a pagan holiday!
Christian: Keep complaining and we’ll take Toyotathon
and make it a Christian holiday too.
Skeptic: But we...
Christian: You just lost Shark Week.
Skeptic: That’s not...
Christian: SHARK WEEK IS A WEEK-LONG CHRISTIAN FESTIVAL NOW
I think there's some biblical justification for this:
"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Yes, there's the inevitable adulteration of what is important in the Christian idea, but somewhere in there is the kernel and it often sprouts forth. Like Christ touching the unclean leper and making him clean, if the power of God is real it will be more powerful than that which opposes it, in the same way that light will overcome darkness simply by its presence.
Hail
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 7:32AM MST
PS
-- What to make of the "popularity" of Christmas in the non-Christian West? --
Christmas has become a generalized world-holiday, observed to some degree ("observed" is a stand-in word for something I have no word for) by huge numbers across the world who have zero connection to the Christian religion, not even some weak ancestral family tradition; say, Asians in Asia of entirely non-Christian origin, many of whom see and hear Christmas-related things throughout their days and have adopted some of their own Christmas customs (such as the Japanese-origin custom of Christmas being one of the very-top "dating" days of the year; woe be unto him who makes no effort to show his girlfriend a good time on the day).
Beneath all the modern and postmodern layers of muck, You CAN still tell a true European from a instrumental user of Christmas, by their attitudes towards the holiday; and by the kinds of things they choose to do; by the associations they make with the holiday. (For, as I say in my little essay below, Christmas is obviously drawn heavily from Central and Northern European traditions.)
What does one make of this strange popularity of Christmas well beyond the confines of "Christendom"? The most-practical answer seems to me that it's a "revealed preference" for the appeal of traditional Western Mankind and our achievements, the kinds of institutions we build, our "culture."
The "magic of Christmas" meme is out there, epitomized by that one old movie they always play on TV (and in all there must be easily dozens of such movies), but really the world-popularity of the holiday seems like a nod to the magic of European Civilization itself!
Am I wrong?
-- What to make of the "popularity" of Christmas in the non-Christian West? --
Christmas has become a generalized world-holiday, observed to some degree ("observed" is a stand-in word for something I have no word for) by huge numbers across the world who have zero connection to the Christian religion, not even some weak ancestral family tradition; say, Asians in Asia of entirely non-Christian origin, many of whom see and hear Christmas-related things throughout their days and have adopted some of their own Christmas customs (such as the Japanese-origin custom of Christmas being one of the very-top "dating" days of the year; woe be unto him who makes no effort to show his girlfriend a good time on the day).
Beneath all the modern and postmodern layers of muck, You CAN still tell a true European from a instrumental user of Christmas, by their attitudes towards the holiday; and by the kinds of things they choose to do; by the associations they make with the holiday. (For, as I say in my little essay below, Christmas is obviously drawn heavily from Central and Northern European traditions.)
What does one make of this strange popularity of Christmas well beyond the confines of "Christendom"? The most-practical answer seems to me that it's a "revealed preference" for the appeal of traditional Western Mankind and our achievements, the kinds of institutions we build, our "culture."
The "magic of Christmas" meme is out there, epitomized by that one old movie they always play on TV (and in all there must be easily dozens of such movies), but really the world-popularity of the holiday seems like a nod to the magic of European Civilization itself!
Am I wrong?
Hail
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 7:14AM MST
PS
-- On Christmas and the Europeanization of Christianity --
Although the Dec. 25 holiday (or Jan. 6/7 for the Orthodox) is the celebration of the birth of Jesus, we know that they selected the "Christmas" date as part of the Europeanization of the Christian religion, and even "Germanicization" of the Christian religion.
The process of the Europeanization of our religion occurs over many centuries and a long time ago practically in prehistory from the perspective of postmodern man. For me it is basically the defining part of the classic religion known as Christianity, with fresh input down through the centuries, and although sometimes going astray (much of the medieval Catholic Church), it always kept something of that formative force. (But then came 19th-century Jewish Emancipation and other developments, including the rise of aggressive and politicized Feminism, ultimately undermining the religion and its tradition in large part (see, e.g., the pro-Jewish "Rapture Theology" that spread like a noxious weed in the late-20th century.)
They took the mid-winter festival so important to our pagan ancestors and declared it the date to celebrate Jesus' birth.
Knowing that there is also at least one theologian who reads Peak Stupidity, I'll add that it's also convenient to peg "Christmas" (Jesus' birth) where it is because it creates a long string of Christian holidays from December to March or April ----- starting with the "Advent" lead-up to Christmas (generally more important in a general-cultural sense in Europe than in the USA); then Christmas season itself; then Epiphany in January (also more important in some Christian cultures than others); then Lent (same comment again; also a nod to the Catholics' usual penchant for overdoing-things exuberance and all that "Carnival" thing); then Easter, which is the true centerpiece holiday of our religion and which is better dateable given that the gospels all identify it was a Jewish plot during their holiday known as "Passover."
-- On Christmas and the Europeanization of Christianity --
Although the Dec. 25 holiday (or Jan. 6/7 for the Orthodox) is the celebration of the birth of Jesus, we know that they selected the "Christmas" date as part of the Europeanization of the Christian religion, and even "Germanicization" of the Christian religion.
The process of the Europeanization of our religion occurs over many centuries and a long time ago practically in prehistory from the perspective of postmodern man. For me it is basically the defining part of the classic religion known as Christianity, with fresh input down through the centuries, and although sometimes going astray (much of the medieval Catholic Church), it always kept something of that formative force. (But then came 19th-century Jewish Emancipation and other developments, including the rise of aggressive and politicized Feminism, ultimately undermining the religion and its tradition in large part (see, e.g., the pro-Jewish "Rapture Theology" that spread like a noxious weed in the late-20th century.)
They took the mid-winter festival so important to our pagan ancestors and declared it the date to celebrate Jesus' birth.
Knowing that there is also at least one theologian who reads Peak Stupidity, I'll add that it's also convenient to peg "Christmas" (Jesus' birth) where it is because it creates a long string of Christian holidays from December to March or April ----- starting with the "Advent" lead-up to Christmas (generally more important in a general-cultural sense in Europe than in the USA); then Christmas season itself; then Epiphany in January (also more important in some Christian cultures than others); then Lent (same comment again; also a nod to the Catholics' usual penchant for overdoing-things exuberance and all that "Carnival" thing); then Easter, which is the true centerpiece holiday of our religion and which is better dateable given that the gospels all identify it was a Jewish plot during their holiday known as "Passover."
Hail
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 7:05AM MST
PS
.
GOD JUL
.
pron. -- Goo(d) Yule...
.
.
Yule -- an ancient word surviving in English from the time of the Anglo-Saxon conquest of the island.
God Jul (Yule), the modern Scandinavian form of "Merry Christmas". One of millions of examples of how true Europeans really are all brothers.
.
GOD JUL
.
pron. -- Goo(d) Yule...
.
.
Yule -- an ancient word surviving in English from the time of the Anglo-Saxon conquest of the island.
God Jul (Yule), the modern Scandinavian form of "Merry Christmas". One of millions of examples of how true Europeans really are all brothers.
Ganderson
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 6:47AM MST
PS
Fred- Happy New Year and enjoy the Johnny Walker. I find that I like the idea of whisky (of whatever variety) and cigars more than I like the actual drinking and smoking!
Fred- Happy New Year and enjoy the Johnny Walker. I find that I like the idea of whisky (of whatever variety) and cigars more than I like the actual drinking and smoking!
Ganderson
Wednesday - December 27th 2023 6:41AM MST
PS
Happy Day -After- Boxing-Day, everyone!
Also on this day in 1944 Elmira McDonough of St. Paul married T/Sgt Arnold F Anderson of Fort Bragg, NC. He was shortly on his way to Italy and an uncertain future- he did in fact make it home.
A slight ray of hope. I live on a block of older homes- 100+ years, mostly- when we moved here in 1990 we were among the first new wave of young families- our kids grew up surrounded by other kids with lots of outdoor unsupervised play..
Well we just had our annual Xmas even open house- tons of, if y’all will pardon the expression, new kids on the block. We kinda knew this already, as we can hear the kids outside on summer evenings, but it’s great to know there’s another generation coming along.
Hard for me to be optimistic these days, but sometimes I see the tiniest ray of sunshine…
Happy Day -After- Boxing-Day, everyone!
Also on this day in 1944 Elmira McDonough of St. Paul married T/Sgt Arnold F Anderson of Fort Bragg, NC. He was shortly on his way to Italy and an uncertain future- he did in fact make it home.
A slight ray of hope. I live on a block of older homes- 100+ years, mostly- when we moved here in 1990 we were among the first new wave of young families- our kids grew up surrounded by other kids with lots of outdoor unsupervised play..
Well we just had our annual Xmas even open house- tons of, if y’all will pardon the expression, new kids on the block. We kinda knew this already, as we can hear the kids outside on summer evenings, but it’s great to know there’s another generation coming along.
Hard for me to be optimistic these days, but sometimes I see the tiniest ray of sunshine…
Bill H
Tuesday - December 26th 2023 6:52PM MST
PS We went to visit our niece and her family. Two daughters in college. I always look forward to that. They were trying to sell me on the wonderfulness of Kale and Arugula. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued. (I said I would eat it only if it was barbequed and served with bacon, for instance.)
Fred the Gator
Tuesday - December 26th 2023 9:00AM MST
PS Had a great Christmas. We celebrate on Christmas Eve here, then my two kids disperse to their respective in-laws' houses to celebrate with them on Christmas. I have a bit of a hankering for a big family reunion type Christmas but so far nobody has made that happen.
Our dinner was wonderful---ham, prime rib, salmon, perhaps not all but many of "the trimmings". I actually managed to find room for all the dishes, unlike thanksgiving where I actually missed out on the turkey.
Got a bottle of Johnny Walker Green Label and a book by the XKCD guy. See https://xkcd.com/2872/
(I'm not really a scotch drinker but I have a group I meet with once a month to smoke pipes and cigars, drink various adult beverages, read and critique what we've written in the past month, and discuss a book we agreed to read. The scotch will be very welcome.)
I submitted myself to a card game which I had never played before but which was similar enough to pinochle that I managed to do OK in, probably would have won if not for the learning curve. My grandson won. He's a real game shark.
On Christmas day my wife and I spent our time mostly putting out trash for the cleanup day my wife ordered for the day after Christmas. This is one of the few downsides of having a wife from Taiwan---no respect for tradition. Haha....
Hope everyone here found some hope in their observations and thoughts surrounding Christmas.
Our dinner was wonderful---ham, prime rib, salmon, perhaps not all but many of "the trimmings". I actually managed to find room for all the dishes, unlike thanksgiving where I actually missed out on the turkey.
Got a bottle of Johnny Walker Green Label and a book by the XKCD guy. See https://xkcd.com/2872/
(I'm not really a scotch drinker but I have a group I meet with once a month to smoke pipes and cigars, drink various adult beverages, read and critique what we've written in the past month, and discuss a book we agreed to read. The scotch will be very welcome.)
I submitted myself to a card game which I had never played before but which was similar enough to pinochle that I managed to do OK in, probably would have won if not for the learning curve. My grandson won. He's a real game shark.
On Christmas day my wife and I spent our time mostly putting out trash for the cleanup day my wife ordered for the day after Christmas. This is one of the few downsides of having a wife from Taiwan---no respect for tradition. Haha....
Hope everyone here found some hope in their observations and thoughts surrounding Christmas.
Adam Smith
Tuesday - December 26th 2023 8:06AM MST
PS: Merry Christmas!
and Happy (checks Canadian calendar) Boxing Day?
It would have been really surprising to see a band of Christmas carollers at my door yesterday, especially since it rained buckets much of the day. They could have come on Christmas Eve as it was dry and warm and nice. (We had our Christmas fire on the 24th because it looked like rain for Christmas. Accuweather's report was spot on this time...)
I hope everyone enjoyed their holiday as much as I did.
Cheers! ☮️
and Happy (checks Canadian calendar) Boxing Day?
It would have been really surprising to see a band of Christmas carollers at my door yesterday, especially since it rained buckets much of the day. They could have come on Christmas Eve as it was dry and warm and nice. (We had our Christmas fire on the 24th because it looked like rain for Christmas. Accuweather's report was spot on this time...)
I hope everyone enjoyed their holiday as much as I did.
Cheers! ☮️
Moderator
Tuesday - December 26th 2023 7:38AM MST
PS: It was pretty laid back here, J1234. I hope yours was good. The time off is great. Those old-timey carolers coming to our house may have been church groups or may have just been neighborhood groups (without the apps!) getting together. I was too young to have thought about that - more than 40 years ago.
J1234
Monday - December 25th 2023 9:15PM MST
PS-
Hope everyone is having a great Christmas! We used to some caroling through a church group 40 years ago, but I don't think people care to be caroled as much as they used to. Thanks for the videos with the beautiful renditions of classic music. They make me happy!
-J
Hope everyone is having a great Christmas! We used to some caroling through a church group 40 years ago, but I don't think people care to be caroled as much as they used to. Thanks for the videos with the beautiful renditions of classic music. They make me happy!
-J
However, we can discuss this under a post. It seems like it would be a quick one, but they never pan out that way. I could include some of Mr.Hail's commenting on the part that directly applies.
His 2nd thing, BTW, to avoid about 2 months of suspense (I surely hope not!) for the reader, is that he is a real Globalist, a Christian-nation Globalist, not the Soros type. He directly said that he doesn't believe in any Nationalism. He's they very guy that VDare writers point out, who want so import the 3rd world, 2nd world, ANYBODY, for more Christians.