Posted On: Tuesday - January 9th 2024 3:49PM MST
In Topics: US Police State Media Stupidity US Feral Government
From the Washington Examiner, I read news of a poll about the J6 Political Prisoners. It tells us that ‘Sympathy’ [is] surging for Jan. 6 rioters, 43% agree ‘they had a point’. Yes, "having had a point" is putting it mildly. They were petitioning for the redressing of our grievances, pretty egregious grievances, I'd say. These Examiner sites are unbiased, or, as we'd call them, Conservative news source - the question wording comes from Suffolk University and USA Today, who did this polling.
I've been polled (in Dec. of '20), and let me tell you, I have lost almost all faith in the value of the results of these things. "Well, that's a simple yes or no question, so that's useful" the reader may argue. It's not always so simple on the telephone respondent's end though. That was probably one of a number of multiple-choice answers to a question, other answers being plain stupid or leading to what the pollsters want to come up with.
It's good to hear that 43% of the respondents (higher than closer in time to the happening)] to the Jan 6th rioters as far as their having a good reason to be there. Are they "sympathetic" to the plight of the 1000+ Political Prisoners being held in the dungeons of the Federal Shithole also? What about the rest? Do they think this punishment is appropriate and commensurate with that dealt out to other rioters and even arsonists and murderers of recent years? From the Washington Examiner article:
“Only 48% of voters overall said they thought the rioters were ‘criminals,’ a significant drop from the 70% of voters who thought so in a Suffolk survey conducted just weeks after the attacks. Those who agreed that ‘they went too far, but they had a point’ rose to 37% from 24%, and 6% called their actions ‘appropriate,’ when in 2021 just 2% did,” it added.I'd have liked to have developed a poll and to asked my own simple questions:
1) Pick from the following which locations where Jan 6 participants had a right to demonstrate (multiple answers accepted):
a) The streets of Washington
b) The lawn outside the Capitol
c) The outside portions of the Capitol
d) The inside of the Capitol building
2) Which is closest to your best description of the participants (multiple answers accepted)?:
a) Mostly peaceful protestors
b) Rowdy protestors
c) Rioters
d) Trespassers
e) Troublemakers
f) Insurrectionists
3) For the average non-violent participant, what do you think would have been the appropriate legal action?:
a) None
b) A fine
c) Jail time for a day to a week
d) Jail time for up to a month
e) Years in jail
f) Execution
I think the percentage of (f)'s would give us a good clue of when this whole thing will come to blows. It's not our side that's starting it.
Comments:
Moderator
Wednesday - January 10th 2024 8:06AM MST
PS: Mr. Hail, yes, the question about whether the people here or the people there were mostly peaceful or mostly whatever are way too ill-definied. After, I'd say (at least!) 95% of the people at this political event, to put it that way, were completely peaceful, standing on the grass in the cold weather listening to talks and freezing their asses off.
Standing about does that to you. You do get warmed up by running up steps, throwing fire extinguishers, throwing back tear gas containers, and jumping through window openings, I gotta admit. There's something to be said for that ;-}
It's the use of the word "insurrection" at all that marks one as either a brain-dead follower of the Regime Media or one of the liars that has got to know that a real insurrection in America, of all places, would involve lots of gun-carrying and shooting by the insurrectionists.
Your excerpt really shows how arrogant and Totalitarian the Regime Media people are. No writing about shades of grey and things getting out of hand slightly in FS that day due to possibly some agitators or just Americans who got a little out of hand, or, regarding the election, the number of times ballots were supposedly correctly tabulated, stats about the States Trump lost last minute and why that was all on the up-and-up, etc.
No, I've seen too much to believe all that, but at least that's better than starting from the beginning saying the opposition of this regime are just plain liars, and why it the lying increasing? That that excerpt is a big lie itself is what makes this stuff read as n the style of the devil himself.
No, the real revisionism started that very day, when it was all overblown, and the Pelosi's and such acted like they had just dodged bullets by cowering under their desks. Maybe Pelosi thought this was the Big One they prepared her for back in elementary school. Duck and cover, bitchez!
Standing about does that to you. You do get warmed up by running up steps, throwing fire extinguishers, throwing back tear gas containers, and jumping through window openings, I gotta admit. There's something to be said for that ;-}
It's the use of the word "insurrection" at all that marks one as either a brain-dead follower of the Regime Media or one of the liars that has got to know that a real insurrection in America, of all places, would involve lots of gun-carrying and shooting by the insurrectionists.
Your excerpt really shows how arrogant and Totalitarian the Regime Media people are. No writing about shades of grey and things getting out of hand slightly in FS that day due to possibly some agitators or just Americans who got a little out of hand, or, regarding the election, the number of times ballots were supposedly correctly tabulated, stats about the States Trump lost last minute and why that was all on the up-and-up, etc.
No, I've seen too much to believe all that, but at least that's better than starting from the beginning saying the opposition of this regime are just plain liars, and why it the lying increasing? That that excerpt is a big lie itself is what makes this stuff read as n the style of the devil himself.
No, the real revisionism started that very day, when it was all overblown, and the Pelosi's and such acted like they had just dodged bullets by cowering under their desks. Maybe Pelosi thought this was the Big One they prepared her for back in elementary school. Duck and cover, bitchez!
Hail
Wednesday - January 10th 2024 7:37AM MST
PS
This is the Washington Post poll mentioned in the earlier with detailed, graphically-shown results:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/02/jan-6-poll-post-trump/
50% of all adults said they believed the January Sixth people at the U.S. Capitol Grounds were "mostly violent," but only 18% of Republicans. (These kinds of questions are often not very useful; people are just signaling allegiance to one team or the other, through their consciousness of talking-point signaling.)
This is the Washington Post poll mentioned in the earlier with detailed, graphically-shown results:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/02/jan-6-poll-post-trump/
50% of all adults said they believed the January Sixth people at the U.S. Capitol Grounds were "mostly violent," but only 18% of Republicans. (These kinds of questions are often not very useful; people are just signaling allegiance to one team or the other, through their consciousness of talking-point signaling.)
Hail
Wednesday - January 10th 2024 7:29AM MST
PS
-- On Achmed E. Newman's retirement --
I see that you have announced your retirement, or long break?, from commenting at the Steve Sailer blog.
I recall well when I decided to make a total-break with the place. It was my biggest-ever single disappointment with Steve Sailer and the operation he runs that he sided with the Panic in 2020. The real reason I left was that I realized I was getting angry at the gall of the Panic-pushers, such as they were back then; and, I asked, why was I subjecting myself to it? A waste of time, our greatest of resource. It was not worth the time.
I made a return. It was timed three-years to the minute, in June 2023. (I had planned to return for some time but decided to align it, in Peak Stupidity style, to the year-and-minute-mark; as far as I could tell, no one noticed this, that my 2023 comment was three years to the day and minute as my last post from 2020.) But things are not quite the same. I perceive a strong degree of negativity in the comment section, and a lot of the same-old people doing same-old things. There are some excellent commenters and they carry a great weight. On the other hand, it's not clear there is any actual political program to any of it.
I write these things because maybe some of it applied in your decision, too.
The time-sink aspect to it, when confronted and appreciated, is enough to justify cutting ties, at least the habit of being a regular-commenter. I've often thought it would be useful for someone to curate good comments and re-post them. I know you've done this, and I have a little. But such a commitment still involves spending a lot of time there. So what would be really good is if someone else would do it and we merely 'consume' it. Alas, this is what good newspaper editors, or magazine editors, once did. Some people still hold such roles, of course, but none of them run Steve Sailer or have a community of contributors quite like the Sailer commentariat when at its best.
-- On Achmed E. Newman's retirement --
I see that you have announced your retirement, or long break?, from commenting at the Steve Sailer blog.
I recall well when I decided to make a total-break with the place. It was my biggest-ever single disappointment with Steve Sailer and the operation he runs that he sided with the Panic in 2020. The real reason I left was that I realized I was getting angry at the gall of the Panic-pushers, such as they were back then; and, I asked, why was I subjecting myself to it? A waste of time, our greatest of resource. It was not worth the time.
I made a return. It was timed three-years to the minute, in June 2023. (I had planned to return for some time but decided to align it, in Peak Stupidity style, to the year-and-minute-mark; as far as I could tell, no one noticed this, that my 2023 comment was three years to the day and minute as my last post from 2020.) But things are not quite the same. I perceive a strong degree of negativity in the comment section, and a lot of the same-old people doing same-old things. There are some excellent commenters and they carry a great weight. On the other hand, it's not clear there is any actual political program to any of it.
I write these things because maybe some of it applied in your decision, too.
The time-sink aspect to it, when confronted and appreciated, is enough to justify cutting ties, at least the habit of being a regular-commenter. I've often thought it would be useful for someone to curate good comments and re-post them. I know you've done this, and I have a little. But such a commitment still involves spending a lot of time there. So what would be really good is if someone else would do it and we merely 'consume' it. Alas, this is what good newspaper editors, or magazine editors, once did. Some people still hold such roles, of course, but none of them run Steve Sailer or have a community of contributors quite like the Sailer commentariat when at its best.
Hail
Wednesday - January 10th 2024 7:17AM MST
PS
Here is the Washington Post's summary of its own recent poll on the same subject:
________________
BEWARE OF DANGEROUS REVISIONISM OF JAN. SIXTH
Published Jan. 5, 2024
The Washington Post -- editorial
"A Washington Post--University of Maryland poll published this week shows a sizable share of Americans accept lies about the 2020 election and the insurrection that followed on Jan. 6, 2021. Only 62 percent say Joe Biden’s victory was legitimate, down from 69 percent two years ago, and far lower than after the contested 2000 election. One-third of U.S. adults say they believe there’s “solid evidence” of “widespread voter fraud” in the 2020 election. Regarding Jan. 6 itself, 28 percent say former president Donald Trump bears no responsibility, 21 percent say the people who stormed the Capitol were “mostly peaceful” and 25 percent say the FBI probably or definitely instigated the attack.
These are minority views, but that’s cold comfort. Disproportionate numbers of Republicans hold them, showing just how corrosive Mr. Trump’s repeated lies, amplified by a right-wing media echo chamber, have been. The devotion of the GOP base to this alternative history helps explain why Mr. Trump has avoided meaningful accountability, why he is still the front-runner, by far, for the Republican nomination — and how dangerous he could be back in power."
________________
.
Recapitulation:
(unsure of exact wordings)
Q. Was Joe Biden's victory in 2020 legitimate?
-- Yes: 62%
-- No, or don't know, or refuse, or other: 38%
Same question in January 2022: 69% Yes
.
Q. Is there solid evidence of widespread voter fraud in thee 2020 presidential election?
-- Yes: 33%
-- No, or don't know, etc.: 67%
.
Q. The Washington Post's questions on who is guilty for the outrage that was January Sixth Violent Insurrection are too loaded to be of much value; still their results suggest 25% of U.S. adults supported the Insurrection.
Here is the Washington Post's summary of its own recent poll on the same subject:
________________
BEWARE OF DANGEROUS REVISIONISM OF JAN. SIXTH
Published Jan. 5, 2024
The Washington Post -- editorial
"A Washington Post--University of Maryland poll published this week shows a sizable share of Americans accept lies about the 2020 election and the insurrection that followed on Jan. 6, 2021. Only 62 percent say Joe Biden’s victory was legitimate, down from 69 percent two years ago, and far lower than after the contested 2000 election. One-third of U.S. adults say they believe there’s “solid evidence” of “widespread voter fraud” in the 2020 election. Regarding Jan. 6 itself, 28 percent say former president Donald Trump bears no responsibility, 21 percent say the people who stormed the Capitol were “mostly peaceful” and 25 percent say the FBI probably or definitely instigated the attack.
These are minority views, but that’s cold comfort. Disproportionate numbers of Republicans hold them, showing just how corrosive Mr. Trump’s repeated lies, amplified by a right-wing media echo chamber, have been. The devotion of the GOP base to this alternative history helps explain why Mr. Trump has avoided meaningful accountability, why he is still the front-runner, by far, for the Republican nomination — and how dangerous he could be back in power."
________________
.
Recapitulation:
(unsure of exact wordings)
Q. Was Joe Biden's victory in 2020 legitimate?
-- Yes: 62%
-- No, or don't know, or refuse, or other: 38%
Same question in January 2022: 69% Yes
.
Q. Is there solid evidence of widespread voter fraud in thee 2020 presidential election?
-- Yes: 33%
-- No, or don't know, etc.: 67%
.
Q. The Washington Post's questions on who is guilty for the outrage that was January Sixth Violent Insurrection are too loaded to be of much value; still their results suggest 25% of U.S. adults supported the Insurrection.
Moderator
Wednesday - January 10th 2024 7:01AM MST
PS: I meant *RAY* Epps, not Ben. Ben Epps is the guy Athens airport is named after.
Moderator
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 9:23PM MST
PS: Dieter the key agent provocateur, Ben Epps, just received nothing but a slap on the wrist for his actual insurrection-raising efforts.
Moderator
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 9:22PM MST
PS: I saw some of that, Alarmist. I wonder how old Jonathan Mason is fairing down there.
"Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)" Yep, I know what you meant. That was a good one. There's not apology at this point that will make it up to those that have been held for years. Massive lawsuits, which will probably be thrown out due to Anarcho-Tyranny, would only be paid for by us taxpayers anyway.
"Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)" Yep, I know what you meant. That was a good one. There's not apology at this point that will make it up to those that have been held for years. Massive lawsuits, which will probably be thrown out due to Anarcho-Tyranny, would only be paid for by us taxpayers anyway.
Peak Stupidity Book Club
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 6:34PM MST
PS: Good evening, everyone,
A Plague of Caterpillars (8.7mb .pdf)
http://tinyurl.com/bddznh74
My apologies, Dieter. I have a small backlog of books that you've recently mentioned that I haven't uploaded yet.
Cheers! ☮️
A Plague of Caterpillars (8.7mb .pdf)
http://tinyurl.com/bddznh74
My apologies, Dieter. I have a small backlog of books that you've recently mentioned that I haven't uploaded yet.
Cheers! ☮️
Adam Smith
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 6:26PM MST
PS: Me again,
Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)
Just to be clear, I mean that the criminals masquerading as "government" own an apology to the protesters. The people are innocent and the criminals in Washington should not have pushed the people to the point where they even have to protest.
☮️
Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)
Just to be clear, I mean that the criminals masquerading as "government" own an apology to the protesters. The people are innocent and the criminals in Washington should not have pushed the people to the point where they even have to protest.
☮️
Adam Smith
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 6:22PM MST
PS: I'd have liked to have developed a poll and to asked my own simple questions...
Ok, I'll play...
Question 1) = e) All of the above
Question 2) = a) Mostly peaceful protestors & b) Rowdy protestors
Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)
Cheers! ☮️
Ok, I'll play...
Question 1) = e) All of the above
Question 2) = a) Mostly peaceful protestors & b) Rowdy protestors
Question 3) = a) None (only because an apology was not a choice)
Cheers! ☮️
The Alarmist
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 5:38PM MST
PS
Did you see the footage from Ecuador? That’s a violent insurrection.
Did you see the footage from Ecuador? That’s a violent insurrection.
Dieter Kief
Tuesday - January 9th 2024 4:21PM MST
PS
Mod. I know such Go-Ins from experience - . They happen since ages. It was a Go-In, nothing else but that - a small tap on the back of the üolitical establishment, as Scott Adams put that quite right.
What makes htings comlicated here is that the elefant in the room has to be made unseen: The really stunning amount of election fraud - played out live on national television for all who wanted to see it raking place: Live! - This revcolution was televised - - - - .
1970 ff. things like that Go-In brought nothing or: small fines - maybe social work for a month or so. - Everybody was happy with such a treatment.
Somebody caught in a fight with police might have been sentenced to prison for some weeks at most.
The number of agents provocateurs is another obstacle for a clearminded resumee of J/6 - of course. Such massive measures darken the minds of everybody involved - on both sides. This is a big reason why such covert actions are highly destructive. You let the ghost of suspicion out of the bottle and he is mighty powerful (for details - see: A Plague of Caterpillars; Nigel Barley a very (!) funny, entertaining and insightful book - can't praise it enough).
Mod. I know such Go-Ins from experience - . They happen since ages. It was a Go-In, nothing else but that - a small tap on the back of the üolitical establishment, as Scott Adams put that quite right.
What makes htings comlicated here is that the elefant in the room has to be made unseen: The really stunning amount of election fraud - played out live on national television for all who wanted to see it raking place: Live! - This revcolution was televised - - - - .
1970 ff. things like that Go-In brought nothing or: small fines - maybe social work for a month or so. - Everybody was happy with such a treatment.
Somebody caught in a fight with police might have been sentenced to prison for some weeks at most.
The number of agents provocateurs is another obstacle for a clearminded resumee of J/6 - of course. Such massive measures darken the minds of everybody involved - on both sides. This is a big reason why such covert actions are highly destructive. You let the ghost of suspicion out of the bottle and he is mighty powerful (for details - see: A Plague of Caterpillars; Nigel Barley a very (!) funny, entertaining and insightful book - can't praise it enough).
Mr. Hail, I'll write about that iSteve commenting business more in a post today. I'd already planned on it. We can write in the comments there. No, I didn't notice the 3 years within a minute! I like that though.