Posted On: Wednesday - June 25th 2025 8:01PM MST
In Topics: Trump The Neocons alt-right/MAGA ctrl-left
We really don't think it's going to come to this, BECAUSE of MAGA, but that graphic is pretty good nonetheless.
My hopes that Trump's bombing of Iran's nuke facilities is a one-off have been boosted by seeing the story of his non-stately "statement" that "They [Iranians and Israelis] don't know what the fuck they're doing!" Firstly, to address that, the ego of that guy is really amazing. Nobody else, over 45 years since the Shah, has made "such a deal" with the Moslem Mullahs and Israel, but Trump is just such a deal-maker. (I mean, he wrote a book!) But, they've ruined it! I say to President Trump regarding (in particular) this matter that "You don't know what the fuck you're doing!"
Perhaps guys like Ron/Rand Paul, the Paleo crowd, the bum Thomas Massie, and so on, DO know what they're doing when they say we ought to stay the hell out of all this. It'd be great if this was the only learning experience of this type needed by Donald Trump. I doubt it.
I've said before that Trump is the 1st woman President. He tends to have hissy fits and get excessively vindictive. His words against the principled stalwart Kentucky Congressman Massie are an example. He's on your side, man.* He's just against non-defensive wars, which are most definitely not "America First!"
Let me bring up some fallacies now that have been brought up to show how this bombing is bringing down MAGA, or something.
1) Just that, this is the END, my friend, of MAGA. Indeed, many of us MAGA people are pissed. More wars for Israel, as sold to us as saving the world, are not making America great. They are making us broke that much faster. If there is any goodwill left after 35 years of blowing the huge amount America had accumulated during the Cold War, this will see it's blown too.
However, if you ask Peak Stupidity, the stopping and REVERSING of the PRP (in its form, the immigration invasion, both legal and illegal) is Job 1 for MAGA and in MAGA as a phrase. Lots of us don't like this act, though polls say not so many don't, but we care more about what he's been accomplishing on Job 1.
If this becomes Afghanistan II or Iraq III, I imagine MAGA will need to find someone who doesn't TACO to The NeoCons. It doesn't look like it will.
I know people who are as Conservative as can be who just can't get that Buchanan phrase "A Republic, not an Empire". (One in question likes Pat Buchanan's pro-White stance, but just can't ...) We must control the high seas, or the CCP will... all that... However, as much as I want it ended, "Invade the World" does not HAVE TO go along with "Invite the World". The Cause & Effect regarding the 2 parts of this nice Steve Sailerism have been discussed on this blog before.***
2) Some evil people of the ctrl-left (I can't remember, but types like that Jasper P.O.S. from Texas or Commies from New York) AGREE with you MAGA people against the bombing. That there comes straight under reducto ad Hitlerum, as in "You won't eat your butterbeans, and you like steak. Hitler was a vegetarian, so you're a Nazi" (I don't know if that would have worked with my Mom, so we made every effort to flush them down the toilet instead. I hate 'em to this day!)
Even if it weren't just the fact that these ctrl-left people
3) Trump, as we've already written, is prone to disparaging people on his side if they don't play ball on everything. Sometimes that can be a good thing in a leader.
However, Trump has not been doing everything right. His downright stupid statements and even policy dictates that backtrack on Job 1 are a big example. I hope his underlings ignore his stupidity in this matter and plug along, as if their hearing aids had failed. "Something about farmers and hotels??? I dunno. His lips are moving, but there's nothing coming out."
So, how about MAGA being allowed a little leeway to disagree with the Big Man? After all, millions of people spent millions of dollars and hours to help him get where he is, for not his sake, but OUR sakes. I think we'll be OK if Thomas Massie can criticize the Big Bulbous Bill, for all our good. It's being torn into pieces, as we speak, anyway so criticism of the right things would be helpful right now. We'll be OK if the few principled MAGA politicians speak out against the possible starting of yet another forever war.
Is Trump too old to take any advice? Does he already know it all? Trump-45 proved that widely off the mark. Trump-47 is much better, but he still could learn something from, say, Marjorie Taylor Green:
(This one's a file photo from when she was pushing to oust Speaker Mike Johnson.)
I'll get back to MTG. Matt Gaetz, a guy I wish were the Attorney General right now, had some text "conversation" with his own mother spied upon on an airplane flight and revealed on Tic-Tok. (What a world!) I feel icky - OK, it's not right - reading it, but not being able to stop reading, I noted that Mr. Gaetz explained well to his Trump-worshipping Mom that Trump might need some guidance. Yes, Trump could use a lot of guidance, guidance up the wazoo, in fact.
I'll end this with MTG's statement, which shows that MAGA is not ditching Trump and splitting up, but there is simply a disagreement here, between principled people... and un-principled people who think deal-making is the be-all-to-end-all.
(I hope you all can read that. It should blow up with some decent amount of resolution.)
"Enough is Enough" - yes, I hope. MTG's bit about bombing drug cartels is ... a real stretch... but I agree with the gist of her statement. Note that she's not abandoning MAGA or Trump, or going out to vote for A.O.C. in 3 years.
PS: I added on "MAGA" to the alt-right topic key. Adding new topic keys at this point will result in lots of tedious work that won't ever get done.
* That's the same as it was with Jeff Sessions** 8 years ago.
** Thankfully, ex-sportsball coach Tommy Tuberville turned out to be great on the immigration invasion too. That was just dumb luck though.
*** Ahaaa, there's that very John McCain caricature image from National Review that Commenter Hail mentioned under the last post.
Comments:
Moderator
Thursday - June 26th 2025 11:12AM MST
PS: I like the way you look at all the possibilities systematically, Mr. Hail. About your categories:
1) That has seemed to be the UniParty position since the end of the Cold War.
2) Not even based on the the story about saving the world from those WMDs that will be ready "any day now", I think this was the position of most regular Americans for a long time, paleo-Conservatives excepted. Not too many were even aware of the seriousnous of the "inviting" until 15 years ago(?)
3) Maybe during the Cold War, the left was anti-Invade, but I think that's only because they were pro-Communism. OK, there were plenty of serious anti-war people on the left, but, where did they go when Obama was in office and the Hildabeast was Secretary of State? Where were they when Clinton was bombing aspirin factories in Sudan (to distract people from domestic non-flattering news) and the whole Bosnia campaign?
Those that were pro-invite on the left were deluded softies or evil.. or both. On the right, they've been the business people looking for cheap labor, just greedy bastards, but I suppose there's evil in that too.
4) I think MAGA has leaned mostly this way, but the (2)'s still must be dragged along.
1) That has seemed to be the UniParty position since the end of the Cold War.
2) Not even based on the the story about saving the world from those WMDs that will be ready "any day now", I think this was the position of most regular Americans for a long time, paleo-Conservatives excepted. Not too many were even aware of the seriousnous of the "inviting" until 15 years ago(?)
3) Maybe during the Cold War, the left was anti-Invade, but I think that's only because they were pro-Communism. OK, there were plenty of serious anti-war people on the left, but, where did they go when Obama was in office and the Hildabeast was Secretary of State? Where were they when Clinton was bombing aspirin factories in Sudan (to distract people from domestic non-flattering news) and the whole Bosnia campaign?
Those that were pro-invite on the left were deluded softies or evil.. or both. On the right, they've been the business people looking for cheap labor, just greedy bastards, but I suppose there's evil in that too.
4) I think MAGA has leaned mostly this way, but the (2)'s still must be dragged along.
Hail
Thursday - June 26th 2025 10:31AM MST
PS
"(A)s much as I want it ended, "Invade the World" does not HAVE TO go along with "Invite the World". The Cause & Effect regarding the 2 parts of this nice Steve Sailerism have been discussed on this blog before..."
1. pro-Invade, pro-Invite (the D and R consensus position; championed by McCain, Neocons, many Democrats)
2. pro-Invade, anti-Invite (some elements of MAGA; "Patriotard" element generally, those easily riled up by "We Don't Want the Smoking Gun to be a Mushroom Cloud" talk)
3. anti-Invade, pro-Invite (hefty elements of the Left, always putting serious pressure on the mainstream Democratic Party)
4. anti-Invade, anti-Invite (principled but basically-scattered elements active here and there throughout the 1990s, 2000s, and up to mid-2010s, including such people as Steve Sailer (p.b.u.h.) at the peak of his blogging career; then, in 2015-17, emerges as the core of the MAGA coalition that made MAGA and Blermpf-2016 so different from anything from a major-party candidate in a long time.
_________
"Whoever you vote for, you always get John McCain." -- Tom Woods.
Blempf was elected as a hardcore-4, and mocked mercilessly the mainstream politicians who have long tended, by default, to be 1's.
Worryingly, Blumpf has tended, as president (not candidate), towards 2 or even 1, but it's really never quite clear. He talks in all sorts of ways. He thinks serious matters of international affairs are a game that serve his own ego. He does it all noisily and brashly, with a pro-wrestling flair for dramatic turns and self-promotionalism. He is perfectly willing to mock and attack those who are principled 4's (Massie; so far no direct attack on MTG).
"(A)s much as I want it ended, "Invade the World" does not HAVE TO go along with "Invite the World". The Cause & Effect regarding the 2 parts of this nice Steve Sailerism have been discussed on this blog before..."
1. pro-Invade, pro-Invite (the D and R consensus position; championed by McCain, Neocons, many Democrats)
2. pro-Invade, anti-Invite (some elements of MAGA; "Patriotard" element generally, those easily riled up by "We Don't Want the Smoking Gun to be a Mushroom Cloud" talk)
3. anti-Invade, pro-Invite (hefty elements of the Left, always putting serious pressure on the mainstream Democratic Party)
4. anti-Invade, anti-Invite (principled but basically-scattered elements active here and there throughout the 1990s, 2000s, and up to mid-2010s, including such people as Steve Sailer (p.b.u.h.) at the peak of his blogging career; then, in 2015-17, emerges as the core of the MAGA coalition that made MAGA and Blermpf-2016 so different from anything from a major-party candidate in a long time.
_________
"Whoever you vote for, you always get John McCain." -- Tom Woods.
Blempf was elected as a hardcore-4, and mocked mercilessly the mainstream politicians who have long tended, by default, to be 1's.
Worryingly, Blumpf has tended, as president (not candidate), towards 2 or even 1, but it's really never quite clear. He talks in all sorts of ways. He thinks serious matters of international affairs are a game that serve his own ego. He does it all noisily and brashly, with a pro-wrestling flair for dramatic turns and self-promotionalism. He is perfectly willing to mock and attack those who are principled 4's (Massie; so far no direct attack on MTG).
I would still say that Donald Trump is no John McCain. I agree with your take on him in your last paragraph.